I was hoping for at the very least semi-unbiased.
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Stupid questions about the Rhino (Super Hornet)
- Thread starter Boss_BlueAngels
- Start date
I was hoping for at the very least semi-unbiased.
All really great questions. Answers you wouldn't understand, and don't need to know.
D_Rob
Lead LTJG
I was actually at the Lockheed plant in Fort Worth last weekend. Pretty amazing place, and huge as well. They had a few Marine variants on the line, pretty cool to see. And they were just getting ready to start the Navy version this week. So they are at least building one, where they go from there I'm not too sure.
Okay maybe you can answer this:
Knowing what you know about both aircraft, is there any reason why you might agree with Boeing? Or is the JSF a far superior airplane that the Navy/US People ought to invest in at the present time? Could the capabilities of the JSF wait, as Boeing has suggested, until a 6th generation fighter is produced?
Just to add, I know that Boeing obviously has an interest in selling more Hornets. They want to sell their product, but just because they want to sell a product doesnt necessarily invalidate their argument.
Knowing what you know about both aircraft, is there any reason why you might agree with Boeing? Or is the JSF a far superior airplane that the Navy/US People ought to invest in at the present time? Could the capabilities of the JSF wait, as Boeing has suggested, until a 6th generation fighter is produced?
Just to add, I know that Boeing obviously has an interest in selling more Hornets. They want to sell their product, but just because they want to sell a product doesnt necessarily invalidate their argument.
It is my understating, from reading GAO reports that the aircraft being produced now are exclusively for testing, and that the aircraft is not anywhere near full scale production.
D_Rob
Lead LTJG
Correct. They are not even near full production of the AF and Marine models there right now. A lot of their floor space there was still making F-16s. They have just about gotten ride of that and are making room for more JSF production. They hope to produce one plane for every work day. We'll see if that happens.
And how long will we be for a 6th generation fighter?
The JSF fits the requirements for all three services, the Super Hornet doesn't. One thing you are forgetting is that it is not just a plane but a weapon system with all the system on board being the latest and greatest, from the engines to the radar.
Boeing lost with 'Monica', they shouldn't get a mulligan.
"Monica"? Because of the gaping hole under the nose and the Clinton Navy? Heh.
Boeing confident Navy will buy more Super Hornet fighting jets
"Fighting jets"...I like. Sounds more old-school and dignified than "strike-fighter".
Make no mistake - with the new administration, this deal potentially has legs. There are lots of rumblings that they'll be looking to kill the most expensive, high-tech programs in order to trim the budget and pay for more grunts, and the F-35 is one of those that always seems to come up in discussion. It won't take much for DoD to kill the program if someone decides that's what needs to be done.
The only viable alternative for the Navy is to buy more Rhinos. No idea what the hell the Marines, AF and Brits would do - they all kinda threw their hats over the wall with the JSF. 'Course, if the Marines really fight for it, the program might stay alive. Traditionally, the Marines get what they want if they want it bad enough - viz, the V-22.
Boeing confident Navy will buy more Super Hornet fighting jets
"Fighting jets"...I like. Sounds more old-school and dignified than "strike-fighter".
Make no mistake - with the new administration, this deal potentially has legs. There are lots of rumblings that they'll be looking to kill the most expensive, high-tech programs in order to trim the budget and pay for more grunts, and the F-35 is one of those that always seems to come up in discussion. It won't take much for DoD to kill the program if someone decides that's what needs to be done.
The only viable alternative for the Navy is to buy more Rhinos. No idea what the hell the Marines, AF and Brits would do - they all kinda threw their hats over the wall with the JSF. 'Course, if the Marines really fight for it, the program might stay alive. Traditionally, the Marines get what they want if they want it bad enough - viz, the V-22.
The easiest way to explain it, is that the Hornet is a car, with a bunch of shit in it. Radar detector, portable GPS, stereo, DVD... a whole lot of bolt on items, that give the driver all kinds of data to take in, process, and make tactical decisions.
As was said the JSF is a weapons system. It takes in all that data, processes it, and gives the pilot information.
How's this for comparison. On the first day of the war, hands down I'd rather by flying the JSF.
As was said the JSF is a weapons system. It takes in all that data, processes it, and gives the pilot information.
How's this for comparison. On the first day of the war, hands down I'd rather by flying the JSF.
You're not the first jet guy I've heard say this. In fact, when I visited Lockhed in Fort Worth, all the ex Tomcat and Bug drivers they had there were saying the same thing, touting it's "first day" capabilities.
What about day 2, 3, and on? When they already know we're coming and we want to drop lots of ordinance? Is JSF really going to be the aircraft for all these missions, or just that first one?
(Not a criticism, just a question from an ignorant MPRA type.)
JSF_Dreamer
Busted Head
It's all about air superiority. Why wait for the 6th gens to come out when you have something superior to the current inventory now? Boeing saying that there's no need to buy JSF's and that we should stick with an updated Hornet means nothing... now if there was a huge number of people in the industry echoing that sentiment without financial ties to Boeing, then I would say it has some validity.
Once we've established our presence, you can start hanging shit on the wings and throw the LO out the window. However, I'd imagine it's still going to be the air superiority tool on the flight deck. Don't get me wrong, the Rhino brings some eye watering talent, but that's like saying we should just buy new F-15's and scrap the Raptor.
Edit: And to further elaborate, the Rhino will be your bomb truck after the first day, with some robust self protection capability.
For those curious about the acquisition process and where JSF stands in it: click on the link and check out the chart. From there you might have to use the google quite a bit depending upon how much or little you already know now, but you can gain an understanding of where the program sits and where it has to go next.
Edit: Forty pages worth of acronyms and another 150 of definitions...
Edit: Forty pages worth of acronyms and another 150 of definitions...
That's what I thought.
If I was king and could only buy one aircraft to support my warfighting needs, I would want it to be able to do a lot of things well, like the Hornet. I flew the Intruder and still love it, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I could only pick one. One night in 2001, I was rolled out of the rack after a short, post-EP-watch nap and told that I was written in to go along on a strike into AF (yes, very deep). "When's the brief?" "Uh, they've done the strike package, you're just filling in for ??? who dropped out. Your division is briefing in 10 minutes." About 4 hours later I was one of 4 hornets to get 8 JDAM on 8 DMPI's with good BDA of each. Now that's a user-friendly, efficient killing machine and should be revered with all the other great Carrier-based killing machines from the past. Let's stop comparing watch sizes based on platforms. Multi-role is king now. (OK, I still loved the fun, functionality and simplicity of the Scooter, though I only flew it in training.)