Sounds like change is coming...

[Flash]

Well shit, why did we spend all that money segregating our barracks by sex?

I mean, those women CONSENTED to join the military, so why don't we just throw 'em in with the rest of the guys in the open squad bays?

Well, when the order comes down to integrate homosexuals in the military, do you think it will be a choice?

It's another thing to have to sleep 18 inches from someone when their sexual preference is YOU.

There are probably a lot more people who have done that on this board than who realize it.

But when you room with someone who is a "meat gazer" it make it VERY uncomfortable.

There are plenty of creepy dudes and gals out there, rules and regs ain't going to get rid of them no matter what. Like the dude that won't wash his flight suit. Or the idiot that takes glee in showing off pictures of headless corpses from the battlefield. You can't fix creepy.

 

[picklesuit]

Second, gay sex is not explicitly a human behavior. MANY species of animals participate. It is NOT therefore, un-natural.

You, my friend, are speaking out of yer ass on this comment. I graduated from Iowa State Univ. with my Bachelors in Animal Science...it doesn't make me an expert, but I know what the fuck I'm talking about here.

Animals that engage in homosexual behavior do NOT do it out of "natural" behavior. Natural behavior for animals is to procreate...male+female=babies. When someone drives by a feedlot and sees one steer riding another it is because they are put in the UNNATURAL position of being cooped up in a pen with 50 other steer. The same as the dairy cows...you will see a heifer ride another when she is ONLY surrounded by cows/heifers. You put her in the pen with a bull, you bet she is backing up to him.

Dogs/cats/birds/monkeys/rabbits/whales. When they are in a situation with a member of the opposite sex and the feeling hits, that is where they go...

The human analogy is when you stick 1000 men in a prison, guys who would have NEVER looked at another male resort to what is available...it isn't natural, and throw one female in the mix, they go for the female, not the guy in the rack next to them.

I don't think I can be much more clear.

HOMOSEXUALITY IS UNNATURAL

Right or wrong is another debate...but there is no genetic marker for queer, and you cannot select for gay in animals...it is self terminating...if being gay was good for the species we would all be gay...then we would not be a species...

Pickle

 

[CommodoreMid]

Having one of my fields of study as education in Sociology, I can give you this: This sort of topic can get dirty. Just know that norms follow a baseline and flow from left to right. You would think that being in an information age, these times would come and go faster. Being gay was stratified in Athens and Rome...but of course we know what ultimately happened to them.

Are you seriously suggesting that societal acceptance of homosexuality is what caused the downfall of the Greeks and Romans? No jump in logic there...

 

[bubblehead]

Mods... time to lock this thing? We seem to have deviated from the original scope of the first post and gotten ourselves into a moral debate.

 

[MasterBates]

We will decide when to lock.

 

[scoober78]

You, my friend, are speaking out of yer ass on this comment. I graduated from Iowa State Univ. with my Bachelors in Animal Science...it doesn't make me an expert, but I know what the fuck I'm talking about here.

Animals that engage in homosexual behavior do NOT do it out of "natural" behavior. Natural behavior for animals is to procreate...male+female=babies. When someone drives by a feedlot and sees one steer riding another it is because they are put in the UNNATURAL position of being cooped up in a pen with 50 other steer. The same as the dairy cows...you will see a heifer ride another when she is ONLY surrounded by cows/heifers. You put her in the pen with a bull, you bet she is backing up to him.

Dogs/cats/birds/monkeys/rabbits/whales. When they are in a situation with a member of the opposite sex and the feeling hits, that is where they go...

The human analogy is when you stick 1000 men in a prison, guys who would have NEVER looked at another male resort to what is available...it isn't natural, and throw one female in the mix, they go for the female, not the guy in the rack next to them.

I don't think I can be much more clear.

HOMOSEXUALITY IS UNNATURAL

Right or wrong is another debate...but there is no genetic marker for queer, and you cannot select for gay in animals...it is self terminating...if being gay was good for the species we would all be gay...then we would not be a species...

Pickle

Afraid I'm not talking out of my ass. While the examples you give may be driven by conditional responses, there are many studies showing same sex, sexual behavior in non-human primates...I was not an animal science major but I have a brother who is a primatologist. His, and others research shows, that while it is often a conditional response, homosexual behavior cannot consistantly be environmentally explained.

As for my "natural" comment...I am also not arguing the morality of it. Quite frankly, that discussion doesn't interest me...its waaaaaay to subjective and ultimately boils down to someone saying "Your wrong because I think so" and the other party saying the same thing.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not argung that its a "normal" behavior. I'm just saying that it does in fact, occur in nature, and therefore is difficult to call unnatural.

 

[a2b2c3]

Mods... time to lock this thing? We seem to have deviated from the original scope of the first post and gotten ourselves into a moral debate.

I think he's right. This thread's only gonna get ugly. No one is going to change their ways here and now in this thread.

 

[Bevo16]

Well the wanna-be moderators have spoken.

 

[xj220]

Well, how have the foreign militaries dealt with this issue? Since they have already integrated, maybe we can see the affects thereof or have heard stories. Granted there are cultural differences, I'm sure some things can be learned.

 

[HighDimension]

Well the wanna-be moderators have spoken.

Thats just the normal thread progression.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Well, when the order comes down to integrate homosexuals in the military, do you think it will be a choice?

No, and we will have to live with it. We will say Aye, Aye, Sir, and carry on, as has already been stated.

But it doesn't mean that we have to like it. As I already said, the military is NOT a social experiment, nor should it be at the forefront of societal change - the fact that even the most liberal states cannot get gay marriage laws to pass shows that this is not commensurate with what general society feels.

And, no one responded when I stated it earlier, but today when you take a shower with homosexual LCpl Shmuckatelli, it doesn't really matter if he is "looking" or not, and what he does in his free time is his business.

Next year, if things change, how would people feel being in the locker room with LCpl Shmuckatelli, whether he was "looking" or not. How about the in the field? or in berthing on a ship? etc...

How uncomfortable would women feel if a man walked into the female locker room and started taking a shower, again, regardless of whether he was "looking" or not.

 

[HercDriver]

No, and we will have to live with it. We will say Aye, Aye, Sir, and carry on, as has already been stated.

But it doesn't mean that we have to like it. As I already said, the military is NOT a social experiment, nor should it be at the forefront of societal change - the fact that even the most liberal states cannot get gay marriage laws to pass shows that this is not commensurate with what general society feels.

Let's just hope they don't do other social experiments like integrating african americans or women...the military won't be able to handle it.

 

[VIZKRIEG]

Let's just hope they don't do other social experiments like integrating african americans or women...the military won't be able to handle it.

The thing with these two groups, putting the attractiveness level aside, is that one was housed separately, and the other didn't posses the urge to mate with those with whom they were berthing.

That is one major issue I find with the African-American analogy (hows that for some alliteration) is that no matter the color, most of the people berthing together were not attracted to those who slept in the next rack.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Let's just hope they don't do other social experiments like integrating african americans or women...the military won't be able to handle it.

So I have a different point of view on the topic of "Gays in the Military" which somehow, on a completely unrelated note, makes me a sexist and a racist?

 

[HercDriver]

So I have a different point of view on the topic of "Gays in the Military" which somehow, on a completely unrelated note, makes me a sexist and a racist?

Slow down, Turbo. No one accused you of anything of the kind. You make the point of the military not being a "social experiment", yet that type of argument was used on both of these group as they entered our workforce.

The main thing with integration of homosexuality is attitude, not whether they can do the job (as many already are). And attitudes can be changed, as they were when the military went through other changes in the past. Painful, but growing pains always are.