Single-Pilot KC-46 ops in INDOPACOM?

[nittany03]

…when all the magic works

Pretty sure we're already at a point where if the "magic" doesn't work, the Hornets and Growlers are trimming up and ejecting alongside. And that doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[Brett327]

Yeah, I was wondering (within OPSEC sanity obviously) whether or not that was even possible . . . or even if possible, feasible. I'd never heard of a jet that big/complex ever being physically designed to be operated by one person, as in "all the important switches are even reachable from one seat."

Even in Prowler land, it took the ICAP III AFC to be able to operate that jet Intruder-style outside basic VFR training flights that had VMC-from-here-to-your-bingo weather (read El Centro). And to do that, they had to relocate a few key circuit breakers to justify leaving the second backseat crewmember at home. There's still no way in hell you would have been able to take that jet up pilot-only (and even two folks would have been tactically ridiculous), because you physically couldn't execute the required boldface EPs, and it's the best mind analogue I have for anything bigger.

FWIW, the guys at St Augustine flew it pilot only quite a bit. That said, this KC-46 proposal seems like a bad choice of hill to die on.

 

[Brett327]

…when all the magic works

Same for every fighter type on the flight deck. These are, in many cases, quadruple redundant systems. They are the least likely thing to bring down your aircraft.

 

[nittany03]

FWIW, the guys at St Augustine flew it pilot only quite a bit. That said, this KC-46 proposal seems like a bad choice of hill to die on.

Hmm. Wonder what the SOPs were. I bet similar to the old 260-nm radius to take an ICAP II out Intruder-style. And I guess when you're a four-star, if you're not on the shortlist for CJCS/VCJCS, you have the luxury of tilting at a few windmills.

 

[Brett327]

Hmm. Wonder what the SOPs were. I bet similar to the old 260-nm radius to take an ICAP II out Intruder-style. And I guess when you're a four-star, if you're not on the shortlist for CJCS/VCJCS, you have the luxury of tilting at a few windmills.

Four star? Not following.

 

[nittany03]

Four star? Not following.

I was under the impression that the single-pilot thing was GEN Minihan's pet rock.

 

[Brett327]

I was under the impression that the single-pilot thing was GEN Minihan's pet rock.

I don’t know who that is, or what he has to do with depot level maintenance in St Augustine.

 

[nittany03]

I don’t know who that is, or what he has to do with depot level maintenance in St Augustine.

He's the Air Mobility Command commander who supposedly came up with this idea, so if there's a question as to whose hill this is to die on, I guess it's this guy's.

 

[Brett327]

He's the Air Mobility Command commander who supposedly came up with this idea, so if there's a question as to whose hill this is to die on, I guess it's this guy's.

Oh, OK. Big non-sequitur, but I get your point now.

 

[Gatordev]

Same for every fighter type on the flight deck. These are, in many cases, quadruple redundant systems. They are the least likely thing to bring down your aircraft.

You have to understand where @thump is coming from. While I fly single-pilot IFR regularly and have confidence in the system, I don't have that same level of confidence in the Romeo's system. Between EGIs that randomly fail, AFCS computers that seem to all of a sudden struggle with some internal component, and the occasional temperamental hydraulic boost system, having something die mid-flight in a -60 isn't uncommon.

Basically, think of thump's post as battered-wife syndrome. He keeps coming back, but he knows he's going to pay for it eventually.

 

[Hair Warrior]

I don't have that same level of confidence in the Romeo's system. Between EGIs that randomly fail, AFCS computers that seem to all of a sudden struggle with some internal component, and the occasional temperamental hydraulic boost system, having something die mid-flight in a -60 isn't uncommon.

Wasn’t this a key part of the Desert One failure? i.e. A helo that had a warning light come on and the pilots decided to turn the bird around? One of the helo crews apparently turned back when something in the cockpit indicated it may fail (but hadn’t faiked yet), leaving them one helo short when the mission proceeded.

 

[Flash]

Given the alarming threat systems China has now I can see his reasoning but it is short-sighted and not altogether logical, and likely not worth it in the end.

 

[Brett327]

You have to understand where @thump is coming from. While I fly single-pilot IFR regularly and have confidence in the system, I don't have that same level of confidence in the Romeo's system. Between EGIs that randomly fail, AFCS computers that seem to all of a sudden struggle with some internal component, and the occasional temperamental hydraulic boost system, having something die mid-flight in a -60 isn't uncommon.

Basically, think of thump's post as battered-wife syndrome. He keeps coming back, but he knows he's going to pay for it eventually.

My point wasn’t that systems don’t fail… of course that happens all the time. It’s the criticism of the “magic” ones like FBW or digital engine controls that don’t have a manual backup mode, that some people seem to have a hang up over.

 

[phrogdriver]

Wasn’t this a key part of the Desert One failure? i.e. A helo that had a warning light come on and the pilots decided to turn the bird around? One of the helo crews apparently turned back when something in the cockpit indicated it may fail (but hadn’t faiked yet), leaving them one helo short when the mission proceeded.

It was a chip light. Not really any type of magic system.

 

[phrogdriver]

My point wasn’t that systems don’t fail… of course that happens all the time. It’s the criticism of the “magic” ones like FBW or digital engine controls that don’t have a manual backup mode, that some people seem to have a hang up over.

Yes…we need a backup sets of manual controls for the triple-redundant FBW ones…because every cable, push-pull rod, and bell crank in a traditional aircraft is duplicated.