Mumbai Attacks

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

This is a very poor comparison. Why should the average American, or ANY American prevent the organization of a group that believes in white power, or any other kind of power? Believing in white power is perfectly legal - so long as you don't say...lynch anyone. If you want to get together and burn some crosses in Billy-Bob's back yard, then whatever man, be stupid. If you want to lynch a black person - you can damn well bet the American people will get involved - through the police and sometimes through legislation (hate crimes legislation anyone?). America does something about these groups, when they are legally able. And the mainstream society does not sit by idly when these attacks happen.

What kinds of things get Muslims in the streets, gets them fired up enough to protest and say, "THIS IS TOTAL BS!" Well, it isn't terrorism. But, OH MY GOD, should disrespect Mohammad, STAND THE HELL BY! We're gonna protest, kill a few nuns, burn some embassies. Yeah, real peaceful religion. This is the kind of crap children engage in (in terms of pettiness). Time to pull up the big kid pants and act like FUCKING ADULTS!

Kind of like that comic a few years ago.

 

[OUSOONER]

This is a very poor comparison. Why should the average American, or ANY American prevent the organization of a group that believes in white power, or any other kind of power? Believing in white power is perfectly legal - so long as you don't say...lynch anyone. If you want to get together and burn some crosses in Billy-Bob's back yard, then whatever man, be stupid. If you want to lynch a black person - you can damn well bet the American people will get involved - through the police and sometimes through legislation (hate crimes legislation anyone?). America does something about these groups, when they are legally able. And the mainstream society does not sit by idly when these attacks happen.

What kinds of things get Muslims in the streets, gets them fired up enough to protest and say, "THIS IS TOTAL BS!" Well, it isn't terrorism. But, OH MY GOD, should disrespect Mohammad, STAND THE HELL BY! We're gonna protest, kill a few nuns, burn some embassies. Yeah, real peaceful religion. This is the kind of crap children engage in (in terms of pettiness). Time to pull up the big kid pants and act like FUCKING ADULTS!

Yes, but we have a government that BACKS action against these hate crimes....so the people can stand up and act in outrage because we know our government backs us in taking on such hate.

NOW go back 70 years...when said black man was lynched..how many white's were marching in the streets in outrage? How much legislation was being passed against the hate groups?

You have to have a government that is willing to back the people..for the people to act. When the governments are turning a blind eye to the terrorism that goes on (and in many cases supports it)..how can you expect the people to go publicly and denounce it without fear of reprocrussions..?

What happened to the few whites that defended blacks in the early 20th century?


ALSO, in the last 100 years...how many wars/atrocities/deaths directly involved Islam? People like us, who are not Muslim, have done a fine job in contributing to the world's problems...Battle of the Somme? Stalingrad? Holocaust? Dresden? etc etc..the list goes on. War or terrorism it doesnt matter..to the terrorist, this IS their war.

 

[PropStop]

NOW go back 70 years...when said black man was lynched..how many white's were marching in the streets in outrage? How much legislation was being passed against the hate groups?

You have to have a government that is willing to back the people..for the people to act. When the governments are turning a blind eye to the terrorism that goes on (and in many cases supports it)..how can you expect the people to go publicly and denounce it without fear of reprocrussions..?

What happened to the few whites that defended blacks in the early 20th century?

Good comparison - the US of 70 years ago was backwards in many ways, equal rights was one of them. But being a secular government, not allowing any religion to dictate the terms of how we view other religions or peoples, means that we have a fair (mostly) government. Now, take a modern Islamic government (and not all are like this) that if it doesn't actively support terrorism, may not do much about it, then yes, you can have the situation you describe.

Thing is...70 years ago we were wrong, we GREW UP. TODAY there are Muslim governments who do turn a blind eye to this stuff, or at least don't really pursue it aggressively. They have NOT grown up as we have.

Human rights 70 years ago in the US = backwards. Human rights in many Muslim countries TODAY = backwards.

 

[OUSOONER]

Good comparison - the US of 70 years ago was backwards in many ways, equal rights was one of them. But being a secular government, not allowing any religion to dictate the terms of how we view other religions or peoples, means that we have a fair (mostly) government. Now, take a modern Islamic government (and not all are like this) that if it doesn't actively support terrorism, may not do much about it, then yes, you can have the situation you describe.

Thing is...70 years ago we were wrong, we GREW UP. TODAY there are Muslim governments who do turn a blind eye to this stuff, or at least don't really pursue it aggressively. They have NOT grown up as we have.

Human rights 70 years ago in the US = backwards. Human rights in many Muslim countries TODAY = backwards.

Yeah but go to some of those countries...they are still 70 years in the past (arguably 100's of years) ...and it's not the fault of the people entirely.

 

[PropStop]

Yeah but go to some of those countries...they are still 70 years in the past...and it's not the fault of the people entirely.

Yup, many of them are... sticking to those OLD OLD Islamic "values".

If only there were some country out there, that was an example to the rest of the world of how to be. You know, not a perfect country, far from it, but one where millions of people actively try to go for a chance at a better life. Some place where the government is relatively fair and protects people reasonably equally.

You know what keeps a lot of people acting that way, living that way - Islam.

 

[Mumbles]

Yes, but we have a government that BACKS action against these hate crimes....so the people can stand up and act in outrage because we know our government backs us in taking on such hate.

NOW go back 70 years...when said black man was lynched..how many white's were marching in the streets in outrage? How much legislation was being passed against the hate groups?

You have to have a government that is willing to back the people..for the people to act. When the governments are turning a blind eye to the terrorism that goes on (and in many cases supports it)..how can you expect the people to go publicly and denounce it without fear of reprocrussions..?

What happened to the few whites that defended blacks in the early 20th century?

ALSO, in the last 100 years...how many wars/atrocities/deaths directly involved Islam? People like us, who are not Muslim, have done a fine job in contributing to the world's problems...Battle of the Somme? Stalingrad? Holocaust? Dresden? etc etc..the list goes on. War or terrorism it doesnt matter..to the terrorist, this IS their war.

Gee,

we only lost 620,000 of them, (yes the vast lion's share was white), about 145 years ago. And yes, there were and are plenty of indemnities committed against blacks and other minoritys....but to compare the KKK with Islamofacism is a joke.

 

[OUSOONER]

Gee,

we only lost 620,000 of them, (yes the vast lion's share was white), about 145 years ago. And yes, there were and are plenty of indemnities committed against blacks and other minoritys....but to compare the KKK with Islamofacism is a joke.

I believe that was m0t doing the comparison. I believe it is apples and oranges...my point was only that we were able to turn it around because we had a government willing to condemn these hate crimes..which in turn allowed us, as a people, to openly condemn these things...but in the Middle East the governments advocate the violence brought by terrorist groups.

That was my only point.

 

[PropStop]

but in the Middle East the governments advocate the violence brought by terrorist groups.

That was my only point.

Good point, the ISLAMIC governments certainly don't do much to help the situation. Yes, not all of them are bad, some are quite good - Jordan.

Again though, it boils down to my basic premise that - Islam is a violent and irresponsible religion - TODAY, and they need to grow up. Not all Muslims are bad people, in fact, I'm going to say that very few really are. But their silence against terrorism is deafening. I'll be curious what they do about this latest attack. If recent history is any measure, I won't expect much.

Alright. I'm tired of this round and round thing. I don't need a trophy for "winning" an internet argument, so I'm gonna call it good at this point.

You're either with me, or against me

 

[exhelodrvr]

As others have already so well articulated, radical Islamic terrorism is the 'flavor of the month', soon enough it will be something else.

Hardly. Radical Islamic terrorism has been going on for fifty plus years.

You cannot logically deny that violence is inherent to Islam. You can debate the percentage of people that will actively participate, but the violence IS ingrained in the religion.

And not just because of Israel and the U.S. involvement in Iraq. Malaysia and Thailand point that out.


That doesn't mean that it always will be, but it is now. And unfortunately, with the weapons available in today's world, and the "closeness" of the world due to the transportation/communications available, we cannot afford to wait for a couple of centuries for Islam to morph into something less dangerous.

 

[OUSOONER]

You're either with me, or against me

No problem, I'll just strap C-4 to my chest and end it for the both of us.

I think it's run the course for me too..I don't think Airwarriors is going to solve the world's problems either, although it's fun to try.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Yes, not all of them are bad, some are quite good - Jordan.

And that is only because they were tired of Israel defeating them.

 

[exhelodrvr]

There are Muslim scholars who have raised the BS flag!

And, of course, that is the "proof in the pudding" about the violence that IS inherent to Islam. What happens to those people? Answer - they have to go into hiding.

When an Islamic scholar can leave Islam, and/or criticize the religion, and stay in an Islamic nation without fearing for their life, then I will start to consider that Islam might not be violent.

 

[m0tbaillie]

Everyone keeps letting me know what a terrible, awful comparison I just made but seriously, who the hell was making the sports analogy two pages back?

Yup, many of them are... sticking to those OLD OLD Islamic "values".

If only there were some country out there, that was an example to the rest of the world of how to be. You know, not a perfect country, far from it, but one where millions of people actively try to go for a chance at a better life. Some place where the government is relatively fair and protects people reasonably equally.

You know what keeps a lot of people acting that way, living that way - Islam.

Very respectfully calling bullshit on this, sir. Go visit Turkey some time if you want to see a modernized, secular country that is predominantly Muslim (where women had the right to vote 9 years before they did in France, by the way).

You cannot logically deny that violence is inherent to Islam. You can debate the percentage of people that will actively participate, but the violence IS ingrained in the religion.

Is that a no-shit serious comment, or are you being facetious?

 

[Redux]

Meanwhile pacifist muslims elsewhere................. http://www.aina.org/news/20081126035704.htm

 

[m0tbaillie]

Meanwhile pacifist muslims elsewhere................. http://www.aina.org/news/20081126035704.htm

Sure looks like a respectable source!