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Is there gouge on the drug waiver issue?

buzni

New Member
OK, I'm curious about drug waivers. This issue has come up a number of times here at AW, and I'm not sure that a consensus has been reached. I think it affects a good number of applicants and would like to try and pool our experiences to set the record straight.

From what I've read, most people say that MJ is the only thing that is waiverable. However, there are some accounts claiming they know of people who have waivers for much worse. I know you can have no use in the 6 months prior to your application.

Does anyone know

a) How previous use affects getting a COMMISSION?
b) How it would affect getting a CLEARANCE?

I would think it would differ between something like intel and aviation, but I can't claim to really know.

I'm not sure how many times you can have used MJ and still get a waiver. Obviously if you are a pothead it might be a problem. But other than that I don't know if there is any bright line. I'm curious because I've made some mistakes in the past involving more than 'experimental' usage (probably more like 'recreational', if we are going to use these silly terms), though I was never an addict or anything and have stopped and of course would never do it again as a Naval Officer.

The majority of people seem to be saying DO NOT LIE. I have no intention of lying. In my book, it is worse to be a liar than someone who used to smoke pot every once in a while. I hope the Navy is of the same opinion.

On the other hand, I've heard of recruiters tellling kids off the record not to mention past medical issues like broken bones because they will be DQ'ed at MEPS even though the injury clearly wouldn't affect your ability to serve. There is an active thread where it sems one recruiter extended this unofficial policy to drug use as well.

I just want to know if I even have a shot at a commission before going through with PRK, LORs, studying for ASTB, etc.




Old discussions, for reference:
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2734
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141116
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8164
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4549
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9760
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132844
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134848
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
MJ only and 5 times (or some such single digit number). Anything else, and try to apply and see what happens, but it's not likely.

If you did MJ only and 5 times or less, then good to go. If you didn't then you can either not apply and forget about it, lie and apply (either how much you did, what you did or all of it) and hope for the best or be honest and hope for the best.

That about sums it up.
 

jus2mch

MOTIVATOR
Contributor
MJ only and 5 times (or some such single digit number). Anything else, and try to apply and see what happens, but it's not likely.

If you did MJ only and 5 times or less, then good to go. If you didn't then you can either not apply and forget about it, lie and apply (either how much you did, what you did or all of it) and hope for the best or be honest and hope for the best.

That about sums it up.
Do you have a reference? Just curious because I have never heard/seen a specific number.
 

schwarti

Active Member
Contributor
Goob mentioned it in another thread. Not sure if that's canon, but I'm willing to take his word for it. :D
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Do you have a reference? Just curious because I have never heard/seen a specific number.

I was referring to Goob's post, however I vaguely remember reading some instruction or waiver guide or something that said 7. I could be wrong, but my guess is that if you're over 5-7, then it's probably not likely.

In this respect, less is more!
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
From what I've heard, and I've never read it in any official order... There is no set number, and they don't reference specific drugs. They only reference hard drugs. I've heard it's a bit ambiguous, which makes sense - it would allow them to get qualified guys during lean recruiting periods...
 

buzni

New Member
Looks like I found some gouge. It does seem somewhat ambiguous, as mentioned. I'm not sure what to make of it, but my plan is to be honest about it, apply, and hope for the best. Hopefully I can put together a strong package, aside from this issue.

http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/noru/orojt/introduction.htm#3

APPLICANT DRUG AND ALCOHOL ABUSE POLICY
1. Policy. Navy regulations prohibit, except for authorized medical purposes, the introduction, possession, sale or use of narcotic substances and other controlled substances onboard any ship, craft or aircraft of the Department of the Navy, or within any naval activity or other place of jurisdiction of the Department of the Navy. They further prohibit, except for authorized medical purposes, the possession of marijuana, narcotic substances or other controlled substances by persons in the naval service. It is the policy of the Department of the Navy that alcohol/drug dependent personnel or current alcohol/drug abusers will not be permitted to enter the Naval service. However, it is recognized that some people have clear potential to become creditable performers despite limited exposure to alcohol or drug abuse. Recruiting procedures shall include positive measures to screen alcohol/drug abusers at the point of application for admission. They shall also provide an administrative procedure for the granting of pre-service drug abuse waivers to good risk applicants for initial entry into the service.
2. The expanded drug statement is required only when the applicant has admitted drug use or answered "Yes" to drug-related questions on the EPSQ and physical examination forms for applicants of all programs, excluding Nuclear candidates. All Nuclear program candidates shall sign the Submarine and/or Nuclear Propulsion Pre-Service Drug Abuse Statement.
Nuclear Propulsion Programs. No officer or officer candidate will be accepted into the Nuclear Propulsion Program including officers assigned to Naval Reactors' staff, who has: (1) Been addicted to any illicit drug or is physically or psychologically dependent on any illicit drug or alcohol. (2) Been a drug trafficker or manufacturer per OPNAVINST 5355.3 series.
(3) Abused illicit drugs (other than cannabis). Note: Waivers for pre-service experimental cannabis use may be granted by CNRC (with Chief of Naval Personnel (Pers-42) concurrence), for Nuclear Propulsion Officer Candidates, Nuclear Power School Instructors, and Naval Reactor Engineers.
(4) During processing and in personal history questioning, the following will be accomplished for applicants for the Navy Nuclear Propulsion Program:

(a) Applicants will acknowledge, by signature, that they may be subject to
further background investigation and that any false statements made during application may subsequently result in removal from the program. The certification will also indicate to what extent the applicant meets the criteria in the above paragraph and will contain a signed statement rejecting the illegal use of drugs.
(b) If the applicant admits to drug abuse and requests consideration, the
following information concerning the circumstances of past drug abuse involvement will be obtained:

1. Type(s) of drug(s) abused;
2. Number of times, approximate dates, and amounts;
3. Period over which taken;
4. Last involvement;
5. Civil involvement.
(c) The Pre-Service Drug Abuse Statement (Annex 8C(7)), shall be used to document the statements made by applicants for nuclear programs regarding drug use. This form will be submitted with the application kit to the appropriate CNRC (Code 31/32/38). CNRC will review all pre-service drug abuse statements and grant waivers, if appropriate (with Pers-42 concurrence). Applicants for these programs may be granted a pre-service drug abuse waiver by CNRC (with the concurrence of Chief of Naval Personnel) for experimental use of marijuana only. All Non-Nuclear Officer Programs. a. No individual will be accepted in any officer program, exclusive of the nuclear field programs above, who has: (1) Been addicted, or physically or psychologically dependent on any drug or
alcohol;
(2) Been a trafficker of illegal drugs;
(3) Abused narcotics;
(4) Abused dangerous drugs;
(5) Abused marijuana within the past year;
b. Pre-service drug abuse waivers may be granted to any applicant for a non-nuclear field officer program who has: (1) Abused narcotics more than one year previous; (2) Abused dangerous drugs more than one year previous;
(3) Abused marijuana between six months and one year previous. (Marijuana use only, more than one year previous, does not require a waiver unless civil involvement was associated.) Pre-service drug abuse waiver authority for applicants in non-nuclear related officer programs is CNRC with the concurrence of the DCNO (Manpower, Personnel and Training) (OP-01).

c. No applicant will be considered for a pre-service drug abuse waiver who does not reject further abuse.

d. Those applicants requiring drug waivers will be considered for a pre-service drug abuse waiver based upon the type and extent of drug abuse, expressed attitude toward past and future drug abuse, suitability under the whole-person concept, and the recommendation of the cognizant NAVCRUITDIST CO, XO or OPO.


e. Those applicants who are not eligible for drug waiver consideration under the
parameters stated above are subject to mandatory rejection at the field level. This does not preclude submission of an application at a later date if the pre-service drug abuse waiver criteria can be met at that time.


f. Previous or current alcohol abuse, including documented alcohol-related incidents or offenses, will be a factor in the whole-person evaluation made by the selection board for all officer programs. Although not a mandatory rejection factor, significant history of alcohol abuse is considered a major deterrent to an applicant's qualifications and will normally result in non-selection.


g. Officer candidates in OCS and officers in OIS who are identified as drug abusers by urinalysis or other methods will be disciplined as appropriate and processed for separation. Officer accessions with enlisted status or an enlisted obligation will be immediately disqualified for commissioning and treated as enlisted members for disposition, as appropriate.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Looks like the key is that you weren't addicted, and haven't abused it more than one year previous. That, and have a strong package. That would explain my buddy that experimented with Marijuana, Acid, and Cocaine in High School and the first two years of college. Had a really strong package and got the waiver. He's a Major now.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Looks like the key is that you weren't addicted, and haven't abused it more than one year previous. That, and have a strong package. That would explain my buddy that experimented with Marijuana, Acid, and Cocaine in High School and the first two years of college. Had a really strong package and got the waiver. He's a Major now.
This is speculation on my part, but when the investigator asked me about drug use he said "did you use any other drugs?" I said no, because I didn't, then he goes "ever use cocaine?" which of course I said no again.

So maybe there's something going on between cocaine and national security? Who knows.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
This is speculation on my part, but when the investigator asked me about drug use he said "did you use any other drugs?" I said no, because I didn't, then he goes "ever use cocaine?" which of course I said no again.

So maybe there's something going on between cocaine and national security? Who knows.
Doubt it, it's probably more along the lines of popularity of the drug and that it's a narcotic...
 
I´m unearthing this old thread because I´ve come across the dreaded question "Have you illegally used any controlled substance?" question on the OCS application.

Can anyone confirm from personal experience (not gouge or word of mouth) that they checked "YES" and were still granted a waiver. In this case the YES refers to limited pre-service experimentation with marijuana (4 or 5x) prior to a year ago. I really want to be honest on my application but don´t want to shoot myself down because of some stupid mistakes I made with friends years ago.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
I´m unearthing this old thread because I´ve come across the dreaded question "Have you illegally used any controlled substance?" question on the OCS application.

Can anyone confirm from personal experience (not gouge or word of mouth) that they checked "YES" and were still granted a waiver. In this case the YES refers to limited pre-service experimentation with marijuana (4 or 5x) prior to a year ago. I really want to be honest on my application but don´t want to shoot myself down because of some stupid mistakes I made with friends years ago.
I have no personal experience in the matter. Other than serving with a crap ton of guys that had drug waivers. At times it seemed like I was the only one who hadn't experimented.

Here's the thing - if you're not honest, you could end up being fined and/or jailed (fradulent enlistment). Which is worse? Being turned down by the Navy because you were honest, or getting into the Navy only to follow it up with getting butt-slammed on a daily basis in a Federal Prison because you lied?
 
Here's the thing - if you're not honest, you could end up being fined and/or jailed (fradulent enlistment). Which is worse? Being turned down by the Navy because you were honest, or getting into the Navy only to follow it up with getting butt-slammed on a daily basis in a Federal Prison because you lied?
Agreed, but just out of curiousity...how could they find out? There´s no polygraph test for OCS as far as I know. Is it possible I could be subjected to one in the future when applying for a security clearance? And how reliable are the polygraph results? I didn´t think they were admissable in court.
 

navy09

Registered User
None
I have no personal experience in the matter. Other than serving with a crap ton of guys that had drug waivers. At times it seemed like I was the only one who hadn't experimented.

Here's the thing - if you're not honest, you could end up being fined and/or jailed (fradulent enlistment). Which is worse? Being turned down by the Navy because you were honest, or getting into the Navy only to follow it up with getting butt-slammed on a daily basis in a Federal Prison because you lied?
How would "they" find out? The only way I can think of is if you had to take a polygraph for some super secret clearance...

EDIT: Sonic, you beat me to it. Even if poly's aren't admissible in court, they would still get you screwed over by the Navy. I'm pretty sure that's the only way they'd ever know.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
There may or may not be a specific "hard number" that they have. I'm guessing that they don't have one, which leaves them flexibility.

Even if they DO have a "hard number", they're not going to tell you what it is. If they did, every appilicant would suddenly be at or just under that number.

Don't do drugs. If you did, it had better be a long time ago and a small number of times. Don't lie about it, but just know that there are thousands of dudes trying to get the same slot. It only takes a little bit to fall behind.

Actions have consequences. This is one of them. Welcome to the real world.
 
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