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Illegal Killing?

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El Cid

You're daisy if you do.
Cate said:
This isn't just an issue of reporters running around looking for dirt; it's also an issue of the men in charge making the decision to allow the public to see what's going on, even when it isn't particularly flattering.
I agree with you... BUT... there's always a but isn't there? Seriously though the stories are slanted. Where are the stories portraying Iraqis at work? Right now Iraq has about the lowest unemployment rate in about 20 years (if you don't count "Bathist thug" as a job). THey have a lot of factory and plant jobs up and going that had been shut down years before the Gulf War. Where's that head line? More women are being educated than ever before in Iraq. Where's that head line? Kids have more schools than ever before. Where's that head line? Soldier independantly raises money for local sports for kids. Where's that headline? etc... etc... Get my point. All we heat is "X" number dead... Car bomb kills "X"... "So and so" beheaded... death... destruction... meyham... but nobody is reporting the good that is going on over there. You can't say that there is not an agenda being played out in the media by the liberal owners of major media.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
El Cid said:
Where's the headline?
Making space for democracy
World in Brief
Transplanted traditions for troops in Iraq
Iraq Deputy Prime Minister says elections must go ahead
A banner year for women worldwide
SAIS Center Receives Grant for Leadership Training of Iraqi Women
Dispatches from Iraq's feminist front
Veterans tell untold stories
The hands of the people
Top Zarqawi aide captured in Iraq

Really, though, I do understand your point. And the current news reporting doesn't make reporters look good. But really, it's not nearly so much liberal media as it is greedy capitalist media - flashy headlines just sell more papers. "16 killed in roadside car bombing" sells more papers than "Iraqi children return to school." Yes, there are some reporters and editors who constantly try to push their own liberal agenda. But the vast majority of them aren't - we're not liberals. We're just whores.

A lot of it, also, comes down to the difference between news and features; news gets A1, features get A14 or B1. "Marines capture nest of Iraqi insurgents" is news - it happened, it's new, it has potential for a lot of immediate impact, it can be covered quickly. "Iraqi women prepare for first truly democratic election" isn't news, it's a feature. It's ongoing, it's impact is uncertain or gradual, and the story is going to be a lot more in-depth and take more time and effort to produce.

I'm going to return to the point that I make so many times it should be my signature - the media absolutely could do a better job of pushing the happy, fluffy good news. But readers have a responsiblity to actually read the paper instead of just skimming the headlines and then complaining that the papers never print good stuff.

El Cid said:
...nobody is reporting the good that is going on over there.
Nuh-uh.

El Cid said:
You can't say that there is not an agenda being played out in the media by the liberal owners of major media.
Can, too.
 

El Cid

You're daisy if you do.
Cate said:
Right and other than the Washington Post none of these is from a "major" source. While I do like the AJS it is rooted in the conservative south so it tends to be more centrist than anything (which is good to me) or right of center. Also these are just a handful compared to the actual events. The "bad" out numbers the "good" like 10 to 1. Another thing is that the "good" doesn't have to be fluffy. "Iraq opens another plant" or "Unemployment at an all time low in Iraq" could work and would be "news" and not a feature. I'm not griping at you, I just wish that their were more reporters that believe what you do.

My main gripe is not the print media (because I think we are going round and round on this one) it is the "TV-Media". I'll take the fault for that one since I didn't specifiy and I was using newspaper-like jargin.

Cate said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cid
...nobody is reporting the good that is going on over there.


Nuh-uh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cid
You can't say that there is not an agenda being played out in the media by the liberal owners of major media.


Can, too
Oh and by the way I'm rubber your glue... ;)
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
It really depends on what you want to call a "major source." Most of those were AP or Knight Ridder, regardless of the publication that ended up carrying them.

As for the bad outnumbering the good - that's because the bad over the outnumbers the good, buttercup. I fully acknowledge that it's not all bad over there, and that Iraq (and Iraqis) is far better off without the previous regime in power. But the significant news, in terms of permanence and impact on the American people, is more negative than positive, if only in the sense that a roadside attack that kills our friends is more important to us than "Unemployment down in Iraq" (especially since it isn't, really, to any degree worth mentioning). Oh, you don't get to say, "Oh, you don't get to mention the AJS, 'cause it isn't liberal media." Dude, the argument is that media isn't all liberal. :)

With print or broadcast media, being "fair and balanced" doesn't mean always reporting an equal amount of good and bad news. I once said that if you have Candidate A who runs a soup kitchen and Candidate B who eats babies, you don't go out of your way to dig up dirt on Candidate A in the interest of "balanced coverage." For the same reason, you're not going to give the unemployment rate in Iraq as much coverage as you will troop deaths - or troop victories - because, as far as the viewing public is concerned, it's just not as important.

But I completely recognize and appreciate where you're coming from, and I also appreciate you actually checking things out and doing your research rather than automatically slagging off the media. It's the stuff that intelligent and reasonable discussions are made of.
 

El Cid

You're daisy if you do.
Cate: You are missing the point all together. As a journalist sure you have the right to your own opinion but when it filters into how you (not you as in Cate but you as in the all incompassing "you") report news it because agendized. Right now it is your "opinion" that more bad is going on over there than good. In my opinion it is not and according to the men and women on the ground it is not that bad either... througout the entire country. Of course if you only look at Falujah (sp?) it will appear horrible because in that area it is, but if you objectively look at Iraq as a whole there is a lot more good going on than gets reported. Unemployment in the North and West is down, period. The killings have shifted from targets of importance to targets of opportunity but I wouldn't expect the media as a whole to understand the signifigance of the difference. The point I was trying to make is that things can be made to appear one way or another based on what makes it into the story and what gets left on the cutting room floor. I'll agree that not all media is Liberal but proportionately it is skewed that way.

As far as the AJS I was attempting (apparently poorly) to make a joke. THe AJS has a fairly limited subscription compared to some of the larger papers. I wasn't saying it didn't count because I liked the content (it doesn't make sense). I'm from GA and I'm familiar with AJS. All I was saying is that it usually doesn't get counted with the "major" print media sources and that the WP is one out of how many papers that is some what objective.

As far as your senario goes with A and B. It think that the media would cover it differently. It tends to be Democrat A eats babies but we'll spin it so that it doesn't look so bad and Republican B got a traffic ticket so we'll spin it to look like he's a menace to soceity. It's not that extreme of course but the media does spin and has an agenda... does NBC's latest turmoil not ring fresh in everyones ears? I think people need to take of their rose colored glasses off and see what the media really does.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
Whuh-whuh-whuh-whoa. While you make some good points, you're missing quite a lot of the "big picture" as well. My point wasn't that things are more bad than good over there - obviously, things are improving daily. My point was that the bad things that are happening are more newsworthy than the good. Hospitals opening and kids going to school are dog-bites-man; Marines cracking open a nest of insurgents is man-bites-dog.

As for your Democrat A vs. Republican B scenario - poodle, you'd have to knock a lot of poetic license off of that to make it anything other than uber-conservative paranoia. If you think back to Whitewater, you'll remember that Clinton was accused of everything short of felony drug possession - including, if you recall, tax evasion and murder - and the media ate it right up. Overall, the media doesn't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican, as long as it's a scandal that'll make good, sordid headlines.

You make some really good points, but you need to relax. Sit back, crack open a beer, grill up a baby, take a load off. Pet a dog; studies indicate that it can reduce blood pressure.
 

El Cid

You're daisy if you do.
Cate said:
Whuh-whuh-whuh-whoa. While you make some good points, you're missing quite a lot of the "big picture" as well. My point wasn't that things are more bad than good over there...
Really, dollface? Then why did you write this first:

Cate said:
As for the bad outnumbering the good - that's because the bad over the outnumbers the good...
Seems like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. So what is your real opinion? Because it seems like you'll argue that the sky is green as long as you can say that the media isn't f*cked up. I think this goes a long way towards proving my point. The media has sold the American public on the concept that this war was just some Bush agendized war. That it was going to be another Vietnam. This was all before we even got there. Then once we were in the media has hunted, yes hunted, for any story that can make this administration look bad. Though I admire your professed philosophy it would be nice if people in the media actually stuck to it. The real problem is when "News" in general tries to "sell" the public on what they think we should read. You said it earlier,

Cate said:
the significant news, in terms of permanence and impact on the American people, is more negative than positive
Who gave the media the right to try and tell us what is important and what is not? The media has become "fat" and "arogant". They no longer follow the creedo of reporting news. It has become an agendized crusade of the "media elite" to conform the minds of America.

Cate said:
But I completely recognize and appreciate where you're coming from, and I also appreciate you actually checking things out and doing your research rather than automatically slagging off the media. It's the stuff that intelligent and reasonable discussions are made of
Thank you, I would also like to commend you on keeping it civil as well. Though when I first read it I was confused. I'm used to arguing with people who are not as open in their dialogue. I almost took it as a jab. I wish more people actually dialogued than b*tched, you know what I mean?

Cate said:
You make some really good points, but you need to relax. Sit back, crack open a beer, grill up a baby, take a load off. Pet a dog; studies indicate that it can reduce blood pressure.
Oh, I'm completely relaxed... I don't need any grilled baby, but I'll take a beer or two. Nothing's better than a beer brought to you by a woman! Unless you are a woman than you probably want a guy to bring to you one which is understandable. ;)
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
No jabs.

And for the record, we're not all fat.

I prefer to think of it as "curvy."
 

Blacky

Props, baby!
pilot
One more reason that the media shouldn't be allowed to be "embedded" with our troops. I'd use them for body shields if I were there. Except for Ollie North. I'd give him a gun and let him kick some arse with me.
 

kevin

Registered User
"You make some really good points, but you need to relax. Sit back, crack open a beer, grill up a baby, take a load off. Pet a dog; studies indicate that it can reduce blood pressure."

actually, although acute alcohol usage leads to lower blood pressure, the chronic effects of this can lead to hypertension due to the degradation of hepatic tissue and consequent flow turbulence through the portal vein. im an *******.

back on topic, im going to have to agree with el cid mostly. the media is a business. just like everything else in corporate america, business comes first.
 
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