NEWS If War Comes, Will the U.S. Navy Be Prepared?

[Pags]

Well the dude spent 2-3 years of his life trying to get back on track and on legal hold. Was separated from his community and had to find another one.

My only point on DUIs is that it isn’t all black/white. And not all are the same.

Like I said. Most of here would admit we have had a few beers at golf and drove home.

All it takes it the wrong interaction with an officer and you end up like my buddy or worst since he was just an ENS at the time and could recover.

But you just proved it's not b&w and the CO was able to use his discretion to make his own decision. That you don't agree with his decision is immaterial.

And again, not zero defect. The guy was able to fix himself. As a guy who didn't make O4 despite working hard I have zero sympathy for a guy who had to do a bunch of paperwork to stay due course.

 

[Brett327]

Well it kind of was a zero defect cause the Skipper punished him unfairly for a charge that was dropped and it wasted 2 years of the guys life when it went through the pers process.

This is all such a typical sentiment that usually comes from 20 year olds. I mean, of course the CO was being unfair. He couldn’t possibly have had any other motivations. No other explanation would suffice. Of course, you yourself didn’t have access to any of the evidence the CO considered, nor talk to him about why he chose to move forward with the mast. I’ll bet you talked to the accused though, and his story seemed pretty legit. Probably even a buddy of yours. I couldn’t possibly be rolling my eyes with greater intensity right now.

Pretty typical responses from you that I’m not inclined to buy. Everything is always someone else’s fault.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I think that you have a hard time separating the fact that your buddy was able to get his criminal charges dropped from whether he did the act in the first place.

Well that is kind of my point.

It could’ve happened to any of us.

The guy wasn’t guilty of a DUI. He ran into the wrong police officer and his whole life got flipped upside down due to the Skipper seeing as guilty regardless of facts or circumstances surrounding it.

 

[nodropinufaka]

This is all such a typical sentiment that usually comes from 20 year olds. I mean, of course the CO was being unfair. He couldn’t possibly have had any other motivations. No other explanation would suffice. Of course, you yourself didn’t have access to any of the evidence the CO considered, nor talk to him about why he chose to move forward with the mast. I’ll bet you talked to the accused though, and his story seemed pretty legit. Probably even a buddy of yours. I couldn’t possibly be rolling my eyes with greater intensity right now.

Pretty typical responses from you that I’m not inclined to buy. Everything is always someone else’s fault.

You find it ok to punish someone if the Prosecutor found the charges to be a result of a violation of constitutional rights and dropped charges?

I don’t. The entire situation was a result of one cop violating someone’s rights with a pretextual stop.

Had the cop never violated his rights- he’d had never got tied up into in the first place and the CO wouldn’t have ever had any idea. The COs evidence came from the same unconstitutional stop.

 

[Spekkio]

You find it ok to punish someone if the Prosecutor found the charges to be a result of a violation of constitutional rights and dropped charges?

Yes, it is okay for an employer to take administrative action based on a lower bar than beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do you follow sports? Do you not see several cases of leagues taking administrative action against players based on police reports vice outcomes of criminal charges?

Or how about that people who were acquitted of murder, such as OJ Simpson, were still found liable for negligent homicide in civil suits?

Don't drink and drive, murder your ex wife, or beat up your girlfriend and this becomes a non-issue.

 

[Brett327]

You find it ok to punish someone if the Prosecutor found the charges to be a result of a violation of constitutional rights and dropped charges?

I don’t. The entire situation was a result of one cop violating someone’s rights with a pretextual stop.

Had the cop never violated his rights- he’d had never got tied up into in the first place and the CO wouldn’t have ever had any idea. The COs evidence came from the same unconstitutional stop.

This is all just ridiculous hyperbole and half-truths.

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

We still don't look like a 'healthy' demographic distribution, and the 2030 projection is only in 8.5 years. It took China 40 years to see the full impact of reduced child births.

You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to imply that we are healthy, just not as bad as China. We're likely in for another demographic trough in Gen Z since they're the children of Gen X but that's where immigration can hopefully fill in. If you want to see a country who is crushing demographics check out Angola:

 

[Pags]

You find it ok to punish someone if the Prosecutor found the charges to be a result of a violation of constitutional rights and dropped charges?

I don’t. The entire situation was a result of one cop violating someone’s rights with a pretextual stop.

Had the cop never violated his rights- he’d had never got tied up into in the first place and the CO wouldn’t have ever had any idea. The COs evidence came from the same unconstitutional stop.

Confusing criminal with admin punishment again. The dropped criminal case is totally separate from the NJP. I'm not sure you understand the difference nor do you want to since you keep purposely conflating the two.

 

[nodropinufaka]

This is all just ridiculous hyperbole and half-truths.

How so?

I’d like to hear why you believe this

 

[nodropinufaka]

Confusing criminal with admin punishment again. The dropped criminal case is totally separate from the NJP. I'm not sure you understand the difference nor do you want to since you keep purposely conflating the two.

I understand the difference. My point is that the NJP is a result of the dropped criminal case.

In a diff perspective- how would the individual been caught and punished for NJP without the stop? The whole thing would have never played out.

Keep in mind the stop was found to be a violation and criminal charges dropped.

 

[Spekkio]

You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to imply that we are healthy, just not as bad as China. We're likely in for another demographic trough in Gen Z since they're the children of Gen X but that's where immigration can hopefully fill in. If you want to see a country who is crushing demographics check out Angola:

Somewhat intersting aside: The Gen-X generation on the graph spanned 15 years; the millenial and boomer generations spanned 20.

Angola's got some crazy mortality rate going for people over 10.

 

[nittany03]

You find it ok to punish someone if the Prosecutor found the charges to be a result of a violation of constitutional rights and dropped charges?

When I consider the fact that Military Rules of Evidence don't apply at NJP, only at courts-martial, and that I'm only hearing one side of the story and wasn't there, then yes. I'll consider it at least possible or maybe probable that the CO had a point, wasn't just trolling for IG bait, and at a minimum was probably within the scope of his/her authority.

I mean there's a chance it was a situation Navy Crimes could make hay about; I wasn't there. But I'm skeptical.

 

[Pags]

I understand the difference. My point is that the NJP is a result of the dropped criminal case.

In a diff perspective- how would the individual been caught and punished for NJP without the stop? The whole thing would have never played out.

Keep in mind the stop was found to be a violation and criminal charges dropped.

The NJP and the criminal case both came from the same event. The criminal case was thrown out not due to him not being drunk but because of a technicality. During the NJP I imagine the CO took into consideration the chain of poor decisions that led to the arrest and decided that they displayed a lack of judgement. Since the NJP isn't a criminal case the CO doesn't need evidence and it can be an evaluation of the defendants decision making. CO thought it was bad decision making and worthy of NJP.

Not sure where the problem is here other than you don't seem to like the outcome and that someone's juvenile decisions have professional consequences.

 

[nodropinufaka]

The NJP and the criminal case both came from the same event. The criminal case was thrown out not due to him not being drunk but because of a technicality. During the NJP I imagine the CO took into consideration the chain of poor decisions that led to the arrest and decided that they displayed a lack of judgement. Since the NJP isn't a criminal case the CO doesn't need evidence and it can be an evaluation of the defendants decision making. CO thought it was bad decision making and worthy of NJP.

Not sure where the problem is here other than you don't seem to like the outcome and that someone's juvenile decisions have professional consequences.

A pretextual stop is a violation of your constitutional rights and hardly a technicality

 

[taxi1]

You find it ok...