First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

[Mumbles]

I can't give you an executive summary or anything, all I can discuss is being an end user of the system. Unfortunately, in my limited view, the CMO organization was given an impossible task trying to satisfy competing priorities from deployed maint dets, weighing each CO/OPSO priorities, and juggling maintenance needs. All while trying to build unit morale with the maintainers. Many of the comments I have heard from maintainers are positive WRT to going back to the squadrons. I don't think it was ever a compelling need to switch to CMO, but was viewed more as a way to address pooling of limited assets and manpower.

Now, we get back the accountability of the Maintenance Department to the CO, and a competitive billet for a DH. Wonder what's going to happen to the much vaunted WDD?

I think we all have our horror stories with respect to CMO. I always tried to keep it professional, and work with them when waiting for an aircraft or signing the ADB. But sometimes seeing the sad state some of the aircraft were in was really depressing to me on a personal level (I am talking about non-aircraft downing gripes that were not resolved and continued to pile up into multiple binders, such as my pet peeve, ICS and radio selector lighting). I have and continue to be very comfortable flying the aircraft, and do not doubt the safety. The P3 is a wonderful and very forgiving aircraft to fly, but when things get squirrelly, you better know your shit!

John

ditto!

 

[Sky-Pig]

John,

has CMO been that big of a goat rope??? I remember thinking that it was pretty inane with squadrons swapping planes and what that could lead to, but it seems like starting about 3 or 4 years ago it was a necessary evil.

Goat rope...ISIS timeframes more than doubled.

Buddy of mine was the VQ-1 MO tasked with "proving" that CMO was the correct solution for Wing X...using the USAF experience as his guide.

He did his due diligence...and showed that RFT rates were essentially independent of maintenance construct (Consolidated or squadron level)...the true driver was simply whether budget had money for more spare parts.

He was thanked for his research and quietly told to do what he was told and prove CMO was the right way to go. And, BTW, it required more manpower to do it the CMO way, as well.

My biggest issue with CMO is that it works against human nature...if I don't own the aircraft or if I don't benefit from a squadron flight...why should I work as hard? It's the same basic flaw in socialism...where is my motivation?

Seems like we defeated the Soviets and then adopted their business practices. Good riddance to CMO...almost...the VQ squadrons are still under a CMO construct...for know.

 

[Flugelman]

Words... Good riddance to CMO...almost...the VQ squadrons are still under a CMO construct...for know.

Dang, if anyone should be under Squadron maintenance, I would think it would be you guys.

 

[HeyJoe]

Goat rope...ISIS timeframes more than doubled.

Buddy of mine was the VQ-1 MO tasked with "proving" that CMO was the correct solution for Wing X...using the USAF experience as his guide.

He did his due diligence...and showed that RFT rates were essentially independent of maintenance construct (Consolidated or squadron level)...the true driver was simply whether budget had money for more spare parts.

He was thanked for his research and quietly told to do what he was told and prove CMO was the right way to go. And, BTW, it required more manpower to do it the CMO way, as well.

My biggest issue with CMO is that it works against human nature...if I don't own the aircraft or if I don't benefit from a squadron flight...why should I work as hard? It's the same basic flaw in socialism...where is my motivation?

Seems like we defeated the Soviets and then adopted their business practices. Good riddance to CMO...almost...the VQ squadrons are still under a CMO construct...for know.

Just look at Air Force seesaw on how they have conducted Maintenance of their aircraft. They have tried both and flip-flopped continuously as recently as last year.

 

[MasterBates]

Hell, when I was in HSL we used to get pissed when another DET borrowed or fixed our aircraft. Our maintainers had real-no-shit pride of ownership.

CMO on a smaller scale was being tried out in my last HSL squadron when I left. We went from having each det fixing its own birds (with help brought in for a hi-pri fix) even when at home, to having the dets "break up" int AO, AT, AE, AM and AD shops when they came home. Returning dets turned in their aircraft to MC, and they were doled out upon workups.

It's still the same SQUADRON, but I saw the pride of ownership slip slightly. More along "Why should I go above and beyond the MIMS on 4XX when Det Y will just f it up when they take it on WOWU or COMPTUEX" mentality.

 

[xj220]

Basically, CMO is like in primary where they have a pool of aircraft and each squadron puts in for what they want and the organization has to provide it, right?

 

[Hozer]

Hell, when I was in HSL we used to get pissed when another DET borrowed or fixed our aircraft. Our maintainers had real-no-shit pride of ownership.

CMO on a smaller scale was being tried out in my last HSL squadron when I left. We went from having each det fixing its own birds (with help brought in for a hi-pri fix) even when at home, to having the dets "break up" int AO, AT, AE, AM and AD shops when they came home. Returning dets turned in their aircraft to MC, and they were doled out upon workups.

It's still the same SQUADRON, but I saw the pride of ownership slip slightly. More along "Why should I go above and beyond the MIMS on 4XX when Det Y will just f it up when they take it on WOWU or COMPTUEX" mentality.

HSL had/has (?) DRI and post-cruise DRI. VP has nothing that compares to that level of pre and post-deployment inspection. Inspectors concentrating on one or two relatively small airframes meticulously maintained by 12-18 folks often for over a year yields great things.

In VP, the only two groomed bird were my Beartrap birds. They recieved special attention and we always regarded as the cadillacs, no bouncing, etc.
When Beartrap became vanilla, what little pride in ownership rapidly dissipated with inter-wing aircraft swaps. Sure the AIP were also treated like gold when they arrived on the scene, but then that gave way to ops requirements.

VP maintenance will only modestly improve with re-integration. The problem is, as stated before, spares and tired airframes. The P-8 will be a welcome change in capability and availability.

 

[PropAddict]

VP maintenance will only modestly improve with re-integration. The problem is, as stated before, spares and tired airframes. The P-8 will be a welcome change in capability and availability.

Holy crap! An AW's tangential threadjack just came full circle back on topic!!!

"The day has come!!!!"

 

[HAL Pilot]

Random staff officer: "Let's establish a CMO!" = NCM

Random staff officer: "Hey this CMO thing sucks! Let's put maintenance in the squadron." = NCM

 

[PropStop]

Random staff officer: "Let's establish a CMO!" = NCM

Random staff officer: "Hey this CMO thing sucks! Let's out maintenance in the squadron." = NCM

it is very funny you say that...

 

[Fog]

Boeing to sell 8 P-8I's to India

Just noticed on Yahoo that Boeing has been selected by the Indian military for this purchase. This is important, and I hope they can sell the Super Hornet to the IAF as well. Being closer to India, IMHO, will contribute to more peace & stability in Asia & Africa, SW Asia in particular.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Make no mistake, the Indian military has their shit in one sock and no love for the Chinese or radical Islam. They'll be good friends to have in the 21st century.

 

[MasterBates]

Even though they are flying MiGs, we are the ones training their Naval Aviators, not Russia.

 

[armada1651]

A friend of mine's dad works for Boeing and one of his major projects has been trying to sell the P-8 to the Indians. Looks like it worked out pretty well. And sounds like very good news for us.

 

[Mumbles]

Make no mistake, the Indian military has their shit in one sock and no love for the Chinese or radical Islam. They'll be good friends to have in the 21st century.

No shit.....we need this guys with us.