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First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

MAKE VAPES

Uncle Pettibone
pilot
It'll be funny watching the change in tone in primary when the sub-conians think the P-8 will be a direct line to the airlines.. will change the dynamics of selection process for sure (Sexy Go-realfast Jets or Maritime modded Cattle haulers and a type rating??). Are they going to use Higher Power as Navy does for initial training for C-40?
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Hey, don't forget that helos will still be the bulk, and there are us not-so-fast but still land on a boat (with a hook) fat kids out there.
 

H60Gunner

Registered User
Contributor
I would get aroused flying it 500' off the deck hunting commie subs!!

I'm getting a "semi" right now just thinking about that! Hunting commie subs and jumping out of helicopters is almost, I said ALMOST better than sex.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
NozeMan's math is a little off, it's actually six per squadron!

Back to splitting hairs HJ:D

The post claiming 7 per squadron was in reference to using old 737s in the FRS instead of P-8s. 84/12=7




I knew the P-3 community was hurting for planes...but geez.
 

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
A much higher percentage of the training will be completed in simulators - which for pilots will count (if the Navy gets and maintains the FAA cert) towards their flight hours. I've not seen the P-3 level-D but I hear it is pretty nice, but still nothing compared to the fidelity of a commercial simulator.

Still, there is nothing like the sphincter clinching joy (or experience) of whipping around a 125,000lb plane at 200' (may not be much to go fast guys, or helo guys, but once you've done it in the Warpig, you'll understand). No simulator can ever truly simulate that.

I'll be curious to see how selections go for VP after the changeover.
 

MAKE VAPES

Uncle Pettibone
pilot
How much "A" time do P-3 dudes get now at the end of an average 3 year tour? Donno if the 737 type rating will be a game changer, folks get hired without them alllllll the time, SWA does it too, just not as frequently of late (not hiring at all?). I've got a bud in the hiring department there, I'll ask the question.

Hornet dudes get "A" time in the RAG, and all they sign for all their flights (although they aren't 8 hours long) in their fleet squadrons. Believe the maritime folks get more total time, but less A time (which is really all that matters). Might be hard for airlines like SWA to change the style of flying for well engrained "P-3" type flyers... saw it first hand in VR, you could sense some of the dudes anal retentive tendencies 2 TACANs away.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Back to splitting hairs HJ:D

The post claiming 7 per squadron was in reference to using old 737s in the FRS instead of P-8s. 84/12=7

That was proposed by Flash, but he's not in N88 so it's 6 per squadron according to the plan plus 12 in FRS. That's not splitting hairs, it's a difference of a huge investment. When a new aircraft comes on-line like F/A-18E/F, the recent practice has to be "induct" the entire squadron into the FRS and have them accept the aircraft upon delivery. The squadron then doesn't "own" them until they are certified "safe for flight" by the Wing. That practice also provides additional assets for FRS to rain with for its own needs.

As to Flash's proposal, FRS isn't just basic handling, it's to train students in how to employ the whole package so using 12 vanilla 737s doesn't address the entire challenge and SIMs give a good intro, but you have to get into the air sometime. Otherwise, you could send the pilots to Flight Safety or somewhere similar.
 

VetteMuscle427

is out to lunch.
None
That was proposed by Flash, but he's not in N88 so it's 6 per squadron according to the plan plus 12 in FRS. That's not splitting hairs, it's a difference of a huge investment. When a new aircraft comes on-line like F/A-18E/F, the recent practice has to be "induct" the entire squadron into the FRS and have them accept the aircraft upon delivery. The squadron then doesn't "own" them until they are certified "safe for flight" by the Wing. That practice also provides additional assets for FRS to rain with for its own needs.

As to Flash's proposal, FRS isn't just basic handling, it's to train students in how to employ the whole package so using 12 vanilla 737s doesn't address the entire challenge and SIMs give a good intro, but you have to get into the air sometime. Otherwise, you could send the pilots to Flight Safety or somewhere similar.

Seems awful tight on number. How are they going to account for depot level maintenance?
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Seems awful tight on number. How are they going to account for depot level maintenance?

They're planning on an entirely new approach patterned on how Airliners operate with minimal time in the "pipeline". All eyes will be watchign to see if that works. Historically, a significant percentage of the total buy of aircraft are for pipeline and attrition reserve.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
That was proposed by Flash, but he's not in N88 so it's 6 per squadron according to the plan plus 12 in FRS. That's not splitting hairs, it's a difference of a huge investment. When a new aircraft comes on-line like F/A-18E/F, the recent practice has to be "induct" the entire squadron into the FRS and have them accept the aircraft upon delivery. The squadron then doesn't "own" them until they are certified "safe for flight" by the Wing. That practice also provides additional assets for FRS to rain with for its own needs.

As to Flash's proposal, FRS isn't just basic handling, it's to train students in how to employ the whole package so using 12 vanilla 737s doesn't address the entire challenge and SIMs give a good intro, but you have to get into the air sometime. Otherwise, you could send the pilots to Flight Safety or somewhere similar.


This brings up a bigger picture question in regards to the aircraft at the FRS. Do the aircraft at the FRS ever get rotated to fleet squadrons, and vice versa? I don't know if the birds at my FRS have been in the fleet and sent back, or if they've ever even left my squadron. I would think that an FRS only aircraft might get a different level of wear and tear on it vs a fleet bird.

As far as flying the real thing at the FRS, I agree w/ you HJ. The FRS is getting you accustomed to the new bird, why use an aircraft different from the one you will fly in the fleet? I think a huge advantage that the future P-8 guys will have is that sweet 737 sims already exist for the commercial industry, hopefully the quality can translate to sims for the community.
 

PropAddict

Now with even more awesome!
pilot
Contributor
It'll be funny watching the change in tone in primary when the sub-conians think the P-8 will be a direct line to the airlines.. will change the dynamics of selection process for sure (Sexy Go-realfast Jets or Maritime modded Cattle haulers and a type rating??)

Haven't the TACAMO types been getting a 707 rating for years? I know it's a small community, but I don't know anyone (even guys who want to go airlines) who put it first choice because they thought it'd be a direct line to AirCattleCar.

Most flight school studs wanna go Mach 3 with their hair on fire. MMA's not gonna change that. Don't worry, Vapes: you'll still be every cone's idol.:icon_smil

Now, if you could transfer into VP after not getting the EP in a JO tour in something else, then I don't think we'd have any community manning problems at all.:icon_wink
 

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
I was fortunate enough to try out Boeing's new P-8 demo trailer and from what I understand, there are not many significant differences between the civilian and military cockpits. Someone mentioned already about using old 737s a la E-6s guys. For the beginning, it could work well so you could send more P-8s to the fleet and get more transitioned sooner and then finally send the last couple Ochos to the FRS.
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Recent years perspective from just one P3 bubba

The MPRA community since 2003 has been wrestling with aircraft availability both at the FRS and for the Fleet squadrons. The red stripe messages dictated that some severe steps be taken over the years at the Squadron, Wing and Group level. As a supporting community our leadership has done well to bridge the gap and these intervening years. To some degree it is difficult to explain to an outsider all that we have done, and are doing to keep our community proficient, tactically sound, and engaged supporting other communities with the limitations an aging platform has placed on us. Some of the key decisions the community has enacted to preserve the platform and make it to the P-8A:

- Reduced flight hours per airframe category
- Sending planes to the bone yards
- Budget appropriations to get aircraft "re-winged" and brought up to date such as with AIP
- Dissolving the reserve squadrons and incorporating their planes into the active duty fleet
- G limitations
- Pilot manning reduction
- Pilot proficiency and hours to qual reductions
- Improved simulators

These are just a few of the myriad items our community has faced in recent years managing an aging P-3 fleet while supporting 3/5/6/7TH Fleet Commanders. We have watched consolidated maintenance come and go and the joys of fighting over available aircraft and simulator time at Wing allocation meetings. Gone are the days of pride in ownership, as the limited pool of aircraft get rotated between deployed sites that need the best planes, and/or training and readiness requirements for home based squadrons that are in varying stages of their home cycle. Hopefully with the maintenance departments coming back to the squadron, at least some of the aircraft will be kept at the squadron level to be groomed and taken care of. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the number of available aircraft to a squadron fluctuate based on its cycle.

As other, "older" P3 community bubbas on here can attest to, there used to be many P3 aircraft on the ramp, with 7-12 assigned to a squadron depending on which portion of the deployment rotation they were in. A variety of those planes were of different capabilities of course, from U 2.5s, U IIIs, Beam UP an AIP birds (oldest to newest for those that don't speak P3! not necessarily old in terms of flight hours, but with respect to airframe improvements). I was in a squadron when we got the first red stripe that watched ALL of our planes disappear back in 2004, and for a period we were rotating planes between the Wing and other squadrons.

Bottom line, it is a big shell game of moving P3 assets around to suit training at the FRS, deployed warfighter needs, and home cycle squadron training. This is not going to change in the near future. Hopefully as the P-8A comes closer to manning up the first squadron, we will see our community bridging this gap to the newer aircraft. Just cross your fingers that the P-8A doesn't fall on the chopping block next year.
 
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