fighters

[Fly Navy]

F-8 Crusader. One of our LT's dad flew one and was shot down over Hanoi. Five years in prison.

I think you are correct on that Iraqi pilot respect. We gave them (whole Iraqi military) a lot of credit before we actually fought them. Over-estimation is a hell of a lot better than under-estimation.

The MiG deal, are you sure that's the only one? I distinctly remember an incident where F-4s disguised themselves as F-105's, as in flying the same flight profile, callsigns, etc. When MiGs came up to meet them they got one hell of a surprise. Maybe my memory is failing, but I swear I remember seeing that at least one MiG pilot punched out instead of fighting the F-4s.

Now, here is a doosey. Did Soviet pilots ever fly for the NV Air Force? For some WIERD reason I remember hearing this (only on very little occasion), but it could very well be false. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's just a wierd memory I'm having.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[jaerose]

I think I read that about the Soviet pilots flying for either NV, or NK, too. It might have been in the book "Rolling Thunder."

JR

 

[bunk22]

Originally posted by Fly Navy
F-8 Crusader. One of our LT's dad flew one and was shot down over Hanoi. Five years in prison.

I think you are correct on that Iraqi pilot respect. We gave them (whole Iraqi military) a lot of credit before we actually fought them. Over-estimation is a hell of a lot better than under-estimation.

The MiG deal, are you sure that's the only one? I distinctly remember an incident where F-4s disguised themselves as F-105's, as in flying the same flight profile, callsigns, etc. When MiGs came up to meet them they got one hell of a surprise. Maybe my memory is failing, but I swear I remember seeing that at least one MiG pilot punched out instead of fighting the F-4s.

Now, here is a doosey. Did Soviet pilots ever fly for the NV Air Force? For some WIERD reason I remember hearing this (only on very little occasion), but it could very well be false. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's just a wierd memory I'm having.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

I think you're thinking of Operation Bolo, led by Col Robin Olds. You're right though, they went in disguised as F-105's (used 105 formation and comms) and the NVPAF sent up MIG-21's to intercept. Seven MIG-21's went down in flames without loss and all were shot down by air-to-air missiles. In 1972, a pilot by the name of LT Tucker was vectored to a bandit, a MIG-17, and as he rolled in behind his targert, the MIG pilot decided to punch out rather than fight. It's possible it may have happened on another occusion but I've never read about it. There was a MIG-21 pilot that punched out after being running out of gas. An Air Force F-4 crew chased him to the point of fuel exhaustion.

I agree, always overestimate the enemy.

I have yet to read anything concerning Russians flying MIG's against US aircraft in Vietnam, but I assume it's possible. In the Korean War it happened and I know there was some discussion that the MIG-25 that shot down LCDR Speicher in the first Gulf War may have been flown my a Russian pilot. I don't think anything has been confirmed as far as that goes.

VAW-120 FRS Flight Instructor

 

[Fly Navy]

YES! Operation Bolo, I loved that when I heard about it. Chased the MiG to fuel exhaustion? That's a friggin riot LOL. A Russian shooting down LCDR Speicher would be very bad... I hope we find out what happened, for the sake of his family. MIA has to be tough as hell...

Thanks for the history lesson!

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[Jolly Roger]

Pop quiz hotshots!

1. Name the only Navy ace of Vietnam.

2. What is his current occupation?

3. The last platform designed solely as a gun platform.

4. Who was the two tied top scoring American ace in Vietnam? (the aces who earned the most kills in Vietnam alone, not combined score from a previous war)

5. The Naval version of the F-84.



Jolly Roger

Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win.

"[I would] Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

 

[Fly Navy]

1. Randy Cunningham (interesting fact: born the day after Pearl Harbor)
2. Congressman
3.
4. Robin Olds
5.

3 and 5 I don't know yet, but I'm working on it

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[bunk22]

Originally posted by Jolly Roger
Pop quiz hotshots!

1. Name the only Navy ace of Vietnam.

2. What is his current occupation?

3. The last platform designed solely as a gun platform.

4. Who was the two tied top scoring American ace in Vietnam? (the aces who earned the most kills in Vietnam alone, not combined score from a previous war)

5. The Naval version of the F-84.

1. Randy Cunningham
2. Congressman
3. Not sure but I'll say F-11 Tiger.
4. Steve Ritchie (AF Pilot-5 Victores)
Randy Cunningham 9Navy pilot-5 victories)
Robin Olds (4 victories Vietnam/12 WWII)
5. Didn't know the Navy used F-84's?

This is what happens children when someone has no life (meaning me). You will become a total aviaton history geek

VAW-120 FRS Flight Instructor

 

[Fly Navy]

I just found Charles D. Bellevue as a 6 kill ace. He wasn't a pilot, but a weapons system operator. I also can't find anything on a Navy F-84. All under the Air Force and ANG.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[rare21]

i distinctly remember watching a tv show (discovery) where american pilots swore on their lives that the migs they were fighting where not flown by vietnamese pilots but by better trained russian pilots. of course this will never be confirmed... but i'd take their word on it.

 

[Fly Navy]

I just checked out http://www.f84thunderjet.com and there is no record of US Navy use. Did this exist as kind of a funky test or something like the F-16N? Or are you jerking us around ;-)

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[bunk22]

Originally posted by Fly Navy
I just found Charles D. Bellevue as a 6 kill ace. He wasn't a pilot, but a weapons system operator. I also can't find anything on a Navy F-84. All under the Air Force and ANG.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

There were two WSO aces in the Air Force and one RIO (not sure what NFO's were referred to in Navy Phantoms) ace in the Navy. As you said, Bellevue was one and Feinstein (5) was the other. Of course the Navy's back seater ace was William Driscoll. I've met both Cunningham and Driscoll, it was definitely pleasure. If anyone can ever get a hold of the motivational video made by Driscoll, I would highly recommend you watch it. It's just awesome. Lou Holtz used to play it for his football team prior to big games. I believe Driscoll was a Fighting Irish.

VAW-120 FRS Flight Instructor

 

[goldwingdreams]

Wasn't the F-8 Crusader the last fighter designed and built as a gunfighter? I believe the later models (D or E) were outfitted to carry the early versions of AIM-9 sidewinders though.

___________________________________________________________________
"A good Navy is not a provocation to war. It is the surest guaranty of peace."

President Theodore Roosevelt

 

[jaerose]

What's the title of the motivational video by Driscoll?

JR

 

[Jolly Roger]

Ready for the answers? Ok.

1. Randy "Duke" Cunningham and William Driscoll. (Ok so I screwed the pooch, there were two Navy aces by the standard set in question number 4)
2. Congressman from California
3. Vought F-8 Crusader
4. This was a tricky one, but FlyNavy got half of it right. Both top aces of Vietnam were Wizzos, Charles D. Bellevue and Jeffery S Feinstein (the preponderance of sources I referenced show him as having 6 instead of 5, thus the tie)
5. Ok, there isn't a Navalized version of the F-84. I meant F-86 sorry, I had another brain fart. So, will let you figure out what the Navalized version of the F-86 was.

Do you want another quiz with better written questions?

Jolly Roger

Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win.

"[I would] Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

 

[Fly Navy]

Thanks Patmack18, I'll check out that book if I can find it.

The Navy version of the F-86 was the FJ-2, FJ-3, FJ-4, and FJ-4B.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR