F-35C Unable to Get Aboard Ship, really?

[Treetop Flyer]

Sounds like the whole thing's FUBAR if you ask me. I said it earlier that again the "talking heads" didn't learn from history that no matter the current technology; that it was just as important for crews flying 2nd generation a/c to have a gun as it is for crews who will fly todays 4th generation a/c. Remember the photo we all saw of the Rippers "kill" on that Langley Raptor? It was a gun kill. How many of you guys have flown gun runs during CAS missions for ground forces engaged in firefights? What happens if a 35's the only asset overhead and troops are engaged but their winchester with know gun pod? Show of force with sick vapes?

Then again boys what do I know, I only used to hang the stuff you guys would pickle off, all I know is what I learned in A School and from watching Dogfights on History Channel - haha! Hell, the troops at VX and Eglin will come up with all the best tactics to fly and fight the Lightning, it'll all be good.

I imagine that if they are doing CAS they will likely bring a gun, just like they will probably bring bombs.

 

[phrogdriver]

It'd be nice, but it isn't essential to have one. If the mission doesn't call for it, then it's dead weight, which the B can't afford. Hopefully it's easier to install and remove than the Harrier's, which I believe is bleed-air-driven.

 

[squeeze]

Yes, the Harrier's is engine-bleed-air-driven. The F-35's is supposed to be electric, so that should alleviate the high-power requirement for hanging guns. Trust me, if there's a chance we'll be involved in a situation where guns are called for, we'll have the gun on. For example, we're planning on a springtime OEF pump and we hung the guns in Dec/Jan to work out the kinks and train with them so we're ready; they are not an afterthought.

 

[navyao]

Roger that boys, I know you guys are good to go, no doubt about it, nobody better! I'm just questioning the reason why the bravo & charlie didn't get an internal gun when the alpha did. I'm sure it has something to do with avionics bays or weight limits, etc. or maybe it's more opsec than that and WAY over my head. I just want you guys to have everything possible at your disposal when going in hot. I believed that as a Jr. AO and feel the same today. Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[usmarinemike]

We asked about hanging the gun to the Ord officer at VMFAT-501. He said something to the effect of "It'll take the same as hanging everything else, so it'll be ready to go in the neighborhood of an hour." That's a hell of a lot faster than the Harrier's bleed air gun. Also it will hold something like 330 rounds and itll be all in one pod instead of two like the Harrier has now.

 

[flaps]

navy times on the f-35 tailhook

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/01/dn-design-blamed-for-f35c-tailhook-issues-011712/

 

[navyao]

We asked about hanging the gun to the Ord officer at VMFAT-501. He said something to the effect of "It'll take the same as hanging everything else, so it'll be ready to go in the neighborhood of an hour." That's a hell of a lot faster than the Harrier's bleed air gun. Also it will hold something like 330 rounds and itll be all in one pod instead of two like the Harrier has now.

That's not too bad! Plus those hard charging Air Wing Marines will upload it in less than 30 minutes, guaranteed! It looks like there's a decent amount of room between the belly of the a/c and the deck too, so from a load team perspective that's half the battle. Loading Phoenix on the F-14 was a major pain in the ass depending on your height, plus the Buffalo was freak'n heavy! The thought of up/downloading anything from the belly stations still sucks. I think half of my knee issues are from crouching underneath the Turkey.

I would assume it could be loaded empty and then the rounds uploaded on deck or on the ramp too. Aboard ship I would imagine it'll be loaded with an HLU-196, hook a cannon plug or two up, test it, load the 20MM and arm that bad boy. Mike, you said 330 rounds though, that's all? If that's correct that's kind of waste don't you think? Especially if it's going to be used for both A/G & A/A...

 

[usmarinemike]

Harrier carries 300 25mm. Hornet carries 500(?) 20mm. So 330 25mm isn't so terrible. Apparently the 4 barrel design is more accurate than the 5 barrel GAU12. Also, I think the 25mm round is significantly heavier than the 20mm so as long as you don't suck at shooting, I'd say 330 is pretty deadly.

Also everybody is going to get ridiculous about it, but full stealth aircraft are meant to fight BVR. You aren't launching with the intent of going to the merge and if you do, that's what missiles are for. Say what you want about "tried it once and got shwacked" but that was almost 50 years ago. We did learn our lessons and I doubt we'll let the turning fight skill set die, but if we can do it this way with better reliability and survivability, then why not?

 

[kmac]

Ok here's a random thought. Can the -35A mount the external gun as well? I'm spitballing, but that could potentially add to its ground attack capability if it had a downward cant. The A-10s won't be around forever.

Look at me, solving the Air Force's problems now. I've been at ACSC too long.

 

[jmcquate]

How much does an externaly mounted gun sway with a g load?

 

[squorch2]

The question is how much G are you going to pull on missions that require the gun?

 

[jarhead]

The question is how much G are you going to pull on missions that require the gun?

at least 5-6G's everytime you employ the gun A-G ...and conceivably up to max G if you are defending (up to 7.0 G's in the F-35B's case)

 

[C420sailor]

Also everybody is going to get ridiculous about it, but full stealth aircraft are meant to fight BVR. You aren't launching with the intent of going to the merge and if you do, that's what missiles are for. Say what you want about "tried it once and got shwacked" but that was almost 50 years ago. We did learn our lessons and I doubt we'll let the turning fight skill set die, but if we can do it this way with better reliability and survivability, then why not?

That's assuming you can engage BVR. There are many reasons (*cough EA cough*) that you can't get missiles downrange BVR and your first opportunity at a shot may very well be with a heater, coming into the merge. Once you start turning with a hostile, the gun becomes a VERY important tool.

 

[jmcquate]

at least 5-6G's everytime you employ the gun A-G ...and conceivably up to max G if you are defending (up to 7.0 G's in the F-35B's case)

Ok, so is there a sway? And if so does the gun mode in the HUD calc for AG or AA?

 

[Brett327]

Ok, so is there a sway? And if so does the gun mode in the HUD calc for AG or AA?

I'm sure it's all very high tech.