DADT repealed

[m26]

Again, I'm not saying sexual deviancy will be prolific through berthing, but we separate men and women so do we separate gay men from other gay men?

If you're worried about frat, somehow I doubt the solution would be to go from one gay sailor for every 15(???) straight sailors in berthing to a room FULL of sailors all theoretically lusting after one another. Unless you wanted to give every homosexual sailor his own private berthing. I could watch a few Designing Women marathons to get that, though.

 

[phrogdriver]

Since you were inclined to respond to my post, instead of just completely ignoring my valid question and telling me to deal with it, how would you? Or do you just tell your guys who come to you with any problem to just "deal with it". Be a leader yourself because you have more experience as an officer than I do.

These haven't been rhetorical questions. I grew up in a predominately Southern Baptist area so I know how adamant they can be against homosexuality. I've also lived just south of San Francisco so I've lived near and worked with gay people, and I know how strongly they feel about homosexuality too. I'm worried about the genuine, and possibly severe, conflicts that are potentially coming.

Again, telling Timmy to deal with it means that I've just ignored his very valid concerns. The same applies to Jimmy.

No, I don't have a cookie-cutter response ready. I'd have to actually know Timmy and Jimmy to figure it out. I'd have to talk to one, then talk to the other separately, then maybe bring them together to work it out. There's no cookie-cutter redneck, just like there's no cookie-cutter gay guy. I can't give you just one solution because there isn't just one solution. You have to know both of them and make a decision and convince, or if necessary, order, them to come on board. Again, part of your job. It's really not unlike anyother case where people hate each other and still have to work and live together. There's always a smelly guy, or an oxnoxious guy, or some other special case to deal with.

Is that avoiding your question? I don't think so. Otherwise someone would have already come up with a Chinese menu of leadership, where every conceivable issue has a solution listed. Everybody's different.

 

[Mumbles]

Parting shots from former wing commander at Tucson, apparently after getting forced to retire for culture reasons....

Some of you know that I was recently "retired" as the 162 Fighter Wing Commander. The decision was made by Brig Gen Mike Colangelo, the Arizona Air Commander, who replaced me because he "just wants to change the culture at the 162nd". Not for cause or performance or any other reason. This officer never commanded anything bigger than an Air Control Squadron and somehow he wound up in charge. Heck, the guy probably got beat up in grade school everyday. I think it is indicative of what is happening in our Air Force and reinforces what Bruce MacLennan and the anonymous author have to say below. Well, I also have something to say about our changing Air Force and it's quickly disappearing Fighter Pilot culture.


How many scope dope drone operators does it take to change a lightbulb? Two. One to change the bulb, and one to kiss my ass. That’s right. I said kiss my ass. ‘Cause I’ve had it. The air superiority fighter and its PILOT are not dead and the Chinese are so far not impressed with drones. I am tired of Fighter Pilots suffering at the hands of all the pencil pushing REMFs and ladder climbing opportunists and shitty non-rated managers (who think they are leaders) just because the Air Force is currently more interested in feelings and sexual orientation than fighting. Not all officers have what it takes to lead warriors yet too many of them are in charge in our military. At this rate we may lose the next real war. These shit bird officers need to be run out of leadership positions and get out of my face already. We have too many people in our military that feel the need to play political victim and go to court instead of just dealing with it themselves, no one can have any kind of fun anymore. Men and women can’t flirt, hug, look at anyone sideways, or drink beer out of mermaid mug because of you “victims” and your lawyers. Are you happy?



And while I’m at it... Fighter Pilots, who are willing to die so that we can have low prices at the gas pump and shop at the mall, should be able to throw the wildest parties they can manage without one uptight biddy coming in and stopping it. There were scads of women at The ‘91 Tailhook party who were having the time of their lives, voluntarily being just as debauched as any of the men were. Everyone who flew a plane, or even knew someone who flew a plane, knew how wild those parties were and what went on. What does our society expect? A prayer service? It’s worse now than it was then. ”Victims” need to just throw some punches of their own whenever guys, gals, lesbos, or homos get out of line. Doesn’t our tax money go to teach all of our military how to fight? I’m not trying to make the idiotic “she had it coming” argument here, which would go something like “of course they grabbed her breasts, look how big they are.” Plus, just reaching out and grabbing some boob is wrong no matter what. When I was at Tailhook, even at our most drunken admin parties we never acted like that. No matter how hard I try I can’t think of an excuse good enough to do something like that. But it’s still nothing to lose a career over or get your panties in a wad.



Besides, fighter pilots are supposed to be aggressive assholes. That’s how we used to train them. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want a military of fighter pilots who are gifted at giving sensitivity seminars. I want mad-dog, rabid killers going to battle for me and mine. Man or woman. When our homeland is threatened by Middle-Eastern Muslim radicals, or when we want to force our form of government on some poor, unsuspecting poppy growing shit hole, or when uppity North Korean despots develop nuke weapons, I want to be able to call on men and women who like to fight and drink. I want an officer who knows how to whack some drunk in the balls when he grabs her tits, not call a press conference and a lawyer. If you’re a wimp who doesn’t know how to find the exit at a rowdy party, go fly a kite, not a jet fighter. Fighter Pilot should always be capitalized because it is a hard earned title - So there. Perhaps it's time for me to retire.



Greg "Mongo" Stroud

 

[MAKE VAPES]

OK... I have some one I aspire to be like now.... My dinosaur sentiments x10^8. Fact is, the ladder climbing grass eaters are apparently numerically superior now... shouldn't mean jack shit, military isn't democracy.

I remember the post cruise CO "Im a Tomcat Pilot and You are a FAG" shirt incident... maybe time to pass the torch to the assclowns who will lose the next war.

Great find Mumbles. +infinity... how do we get that to the front page for mando ALL READ?

 

[Flying Toaster]

Parting shots from former wing commander at Tucson, apparently after getting forced to retire for culture reasons....

Great read! I wish we could just end this thread on that note. Here's an interview with him, great comparison of the branches, both a Navy and AF FWS grad-

http://www.f-16.net/interviews_article16.html

 

[bluemarlin04]

Parting shots from former wing commander at Tucson, apparently after getting forced to retire for culture reasons....

Some of you know that I was recently "retired" as the 162 Fighter Wing Commander. The decision was made by Brig Gen Mike Colangelo, the Arizona Air Commander, who replaced me because he "just wants to change the culture at the 162nd". Not for cause or performance or any other reason. This officer never commanded anything bigger than an Air Control Squadron and somehow he wound up in charge. Heck, the guy probably got beat up in grade school everyday. I think it is indicative of what is happening in our Air Force and reinforces what Bruce MacLennan and the anonymous author have to say below. Well, I also have something to say about our changing Air Force and it's quickly disappearing Fighter Pilot culture.


How many scope dope drone operators does it take to change a lightbulb? Two. One to change the bulb, and one to kiss my ass. That’s right. I said kiss my ass. ‘Cause I’ve had it. The air superiority fighter and its PILOT are not dead and the Chinese are so far not impressed with drones. I am tired of Fighter Pilots suffering at the hands of all the pencil pushing REMFs and ladder climbing opportunists and shitty non-rated managers (who think they are leaders) just because the Air Force is currently more interested in feelings and sexual orientation than fighting. Not all officers have what it takes to lead warriors yet too many of them are in charge in our military. At this rate we may lose the next real war. These shit bird officers need to be run out of leadership positions and get out of my face already. We have too many people in our military that feel the need to play political victim and go to court instead of just dealing with it themselves, no one can have any kind of fun anymore. Men and women can’t flirt, hug, look at anyone sideways, or drink beer out of mermaid mug because of you “victims” and your lawyers. Are you happy?



And while I’m at it... Fighter Pilots, who are willing to die so that we can have low prices at the gas pump and shop at the mall, should be able to throw the wildest parties they can manage without one uptight biddy coming in and stopping it. There were scads of women at The ‘91 Tailhook party who were having the time of their lives, voluntarily being just as debauched as any of the men were. Everyone who flew a plane, or even knew someone who flew a plane, knew how wild those parties were and what went on. What does our society expect? A prayer service? It’s worse now than it was then. ”Victims” need to just throw some punches of their own whenever guys, gals, lesbos, or homos get out of line. Doesn’t our tax money go to teach all of our military how to fight? I’m not trying to make the idiotic “she had it coming” argument here, which would go something like “of course they grabbed her breasts, look how big they are.” Plus, just reaching out and grabbing some boob is wrong no matter what. When I was at Tailhook, even at our most drunken admin parties we never acted like that. No matter how hard I try I can’t think of an excuse good enough to do something like that. But it’s still nothing to lose a career over or get your panties in a wad.



Besides, fighter pilots are supposed to be aggressive assholes. That’s how we used to train them. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want a military of fighter pilots who are gifted at giving sensitivity seminars. I want mad-dog, rabid killers going to battle for me and mine. Man or woman. When our homeland is threatened by Middle-Eastern Muslim radicals, or when we want to force our form of government on some poor, unsuspecting poppy growing shit hole, or when uppity North Korean despots develop nuke weapons, I want to be able to call on men and women who like to fight and drink. I want an officer who knows how to whack some drunk in the balls when he grabs her tits, not call a press conference and a lawyer. If you’re a wimp who doesn’t know how to find the exit at a rowdy party, go fly a kite, not a jet fighter. Fighter Pilot should always be capitalized because it is a hard earned title - So there. Perhaps it's time for me to retire.



Greg "Mongo" Stroud

While I agree with the guy on some points. I am unsure of how this applies to DADT. I know plenty of gay men who are wild drunken tough guys. One of them has a Navy Cross for his actions in Fallujah. Is that guy a fairy because he likes men? Not all gays prance around looking for attention. To say otherwise is ignorance and bigotry.

"”Victims” need to just throw some punches of their own whenever guys, gals, lesbos, or homos get out of line". Sounds like a great guy. Punch someone because they're different.

 

[mmx1]

Admirable as that rant is, what's that have to do with DADT? If we straights can't have fun, the gays can't either?

 

[Ducky]

"”Victims” need to just throw some punches of their own whenever guys, gals, lesbos, or homos get out of line". Sounds like a great guy. Punch someone because they're different.

What part of throwing punches at someone way out of line implies beating up someone for being different. Please harden the fuck up or stay out of aviation.

 

[bluemarlin04]

What part of throwing punches at someone way out of line implies beating up someone for being different. Please harden the fuck up or stay out of aviation.

It's kind of hard to stay out of Aviation if I have been there since 2006. I don't need to "harden the fuck up" as you imply. I read and interpreted his reading that way. I don't see how me having different views than you should bring about the "stay out of aviation" line. Feel free to take what you want from it. What difference does it make if the so called "Homo" or "Lesbo" is getting out of line? How about ANY GUY OR GIRL getting out of line deserves to be dealt with. Them being a "Homo" or "Lesbo" has nothing to do with it and the author put it there to be derogatory imo.

I'm non-Politically Correct, but I also prescribe by live and let live. If someone wants to be different and go prance around like a fairy, go right ahead. Don't drag me into it and we'll be O.K.

And saying to throw punches is easy. 99% of people would not have the balls to do it in person. It's also a great way to get arrested and end your career for both enlisted and Officers.

 

[Ducky]

It's kind of hard to stay out of Aviation if I have been there since 2006. I don't need to "harden the fuck up" as you imply. I read and interpreted his reading that way. Feel free to take what you want from it. What difference does it make if the so called "Homo" or "Lesbo" is getting out of line? How about ANY GUY OR GIRL getting out of line deserves to be dealt with. Them being a "Homo" or "Lesbo" has nothing to do with it and the author put it there to be derogatory imo.

I'm non-Politically Correct, but I also prescribe by live and let live. If someone wants to be different and go prance around like a fairy, go right ahead. Don't drag me into it and we'll be O.K.

And saying to throw punches is easy. 99% of people would not have the balls to do it in person. It's also a great way to get arrested and end your career for both enlisted and Officers.

While I respect your prior service, I would advise that you don't go flaunting that around as an SNA because it will not be all that helpful in what lies ahead; and it will make you look like a douche.

As for the quote in question, it does state GUYS, GALS, homos and lesbos so it seems like equal opportunity punching to me. Unfortunately you are correct in one punch being a possible career killer. It sucks that that is what our fighting force is becoming.

If you take nothing else from this post please leave the prior E chip on the shoulder at the front gate of NAS Pensacola because after the commissioning it will not help you fly or learn better. Help those with non prior experience learn how to interact with and lead enlisted and they will get you through API, Primary and anything that follows.

 

[bluemarlin04]

While I respect your prior service, I would advise that you don't go flaunting that around as an SNA because it will not be all that helpful in what lies ahead; and it will make you look like a douche.

As for the quote in question, it does state GUYS, GALS, homos and lesbos so it seems like equal opportunity punching to me. Unfortunately you are correct in one punch being a possible career killer. It sucks that that is what our fighting force is becoming.

If you take nothing else from this post please leave the prior E chip on the shoulder at the front gate of NAS Pensacola because after the commissioning it will not help you fly or learn better. Help those with non prior experience learn how to interact with and lead enlisted and they will get you through API, Primary and anything that follows.

Thanks for the advice. I simply wrote about my prior service because you seemed to think I was just some douche nozzle off the street spouting crap.

It does seem like equal opportunity punching I just get worked up when people call others Homos and Lesbos. Two of my cousins are so called "homos" and "lesbos" and while they are weird as fuck and make me question if we even are related I don't think they deserve to be treated any different. They definitely do not need to be called "homos" imo which they tell me is equivalent of dropping the "N" word. (Their words not mine, doubt it's true though). Besides, in the Navy being a retard shitbag has no bearing on sexuality.

It is a shame wall to wall counseling has gone away. Some people in the Navy need nothing more than a punch in the face.

 

[Ducky]

And as long as they don't go around trying to flame everyone I don't think people will refer to them with the more derogatory terms; however, most people here don't know the difference between a PC term to describe homosexuals and an offensive one. It seems like every gay person I talk to has a different idea of what is offensive and what is not.

 

[bluemarlin04]

And as long as they don't go around trying to flame everyone I don't think people will refer to them with the more derogatory terms; however, most people here don't know the difference between a PC term to describe homosexuals and an offensive one. It seems like every gay person I talk to has a different idea of what is offensive and what is not.

That's the problem. I watch people in real life flame others for being gay when they did nothing to them except be different. For instance, a guy I work with tells people he hates fags yet doesn't even know one and claims he doesn't want to know one. People go about gay bashing all the time because it's somehow still acceptable in many places especially in some areas I've visited.

For the second point, I would venture to guess most adults who are 21+ should know by now what is acceptable to call homosexuals. Pretty sure people know calling others "homos" or "lesbos" is not appropriate. At least where I'm from.

Edit: I'm talking about what to call them in real life or in formal interviews like the Major above. On an internet message board I have no idea.

 

[Ducky]

I see where you are coming from,but to my ears homos and lesbos sounds acceptable while fag, fearie, queen, or queer sounds more derogatory. To me homo or lesbo is just a shortened form of the full words. Signs of obvious growing pains I guess.

 

[Mumbles]

I think that the Col's rant has everything and nothing to do with DADT.....
It's just a really embittered guy's commentary on the erosion of the Warrior culture ( which is really eschewed now) and replaced by an effeminate, effete', eunuch, pseudo intelletual culture which is much more likely to not offend the sensibilities of the bad guys in the world. I see a proliferation of the latter on AW's these days.