Cost for getting ME rating or CFI/II rating in JAX with GI Bill

[MasterBates]

Everybody,

I am sitting on about 6 months of sitting on my butt (read as no deployment, no real ground job either) waiting to PCS out of here.

Thinking about using my GI bill to get my multi engine rating, or CFI rating.

I currently hold a commercial ticket with:
Airplane Single Engine Land
Rotorcraft Helicopter
Instrument Airplane
Instrument Helicopter

Military Quals
HAC
FCP
NVGI

Here is what I got total (mil & civil)

1850 hours
1650 in helicopters
650 in the SH60B
800 in the Bell 206/TH57
200 in Bell 204/UH1
100 in T-34
100 in Cessna150/172 and PA32.

Here is what I want:

Multi Engine, for as little as possible out of pocket. I have a lot of time, but limited funds from now until december. I still work 5 days a week at my squadron, but I am senior enough here to set my own hours to a point. Working in OPS helps that as well.

As an alternate, I was thinking of getting my CFI first if it would be more cost-effective and allow me to build some non-rotorcraft flight time and possibly make enough that the ME rating is costing me nothing but time.

Am I insane, or is this doable. I have the commands belssing provided what little work I do here gets done. And I remain available for TAD. (I am the resident "We need a HAC to go to XX for a week guy)

 

[mules83]

I got my CFI first because it was more useful. A multi commercial ticket really isn't good for anything unless you carry on and get a MEI or are looking for a flying job in the civilian world. After I made some money as a CFI, I got my multi commercial add-on and someday will probably get my MEI (mainly to look good on paper).

And also, you become a better pilot both in flying and knowledge once you are a CFI. I was always told and believe it now that you really don't learn information/skills until you teach it.

 

[squorch2]

Somehow I don't think knowledge or flying skills is a problem.

 

[mules83]

I understand, but...

flying is like golf; there is always room for improvment

 

[A4sForever]

...
Thinking about using my GI bill to get my multi engine rating, or CFI rating. ...

How much ??? How much would you have left ???

 

[MasterBates]

trying to find out the cost A4s. Asking around the wing to see who has done it lately.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I know a lot of guys that did their ATP and 737 type rating all at once without ever having any other quals from the FAA. I seem to recall about $9000 to get it done.

I'm looking down this road myself, but not just yet. I wnat to do it closer to getting out so that my knowlege is more fresh for interviewing. Does that make sense, or am I way off base?

 

[A4sForever]

I know a lot of guys that did their ATP and 737 type rating all at once without ever having any other quals from the FAA. I seem to recall about $9000 to get it done. ...

....that "program" would probably be the most "valuable" these days .... ??? Right now, it's a crap shoot with downsizing and beaucoup guys furloughed and in the "hunt".

It used to be you needed an FE, an ATP, a type, and at least 2000 hours to be competetive. Oh, yeah ... an MA didn't hurt, either.

"Knowledges" ... also known as an "insurance policy".

Now days, scratch the FE, get the ATP, the max hours, and probably a 737 type ... Spend your own $$$ if the situation demands it. I did ... if you have the means and opportunity, I highly reccommend it. (apologies to Ferris )

But don't discount the "knowledges" ....

 

[FlytheBall]

To do multiengine its about 180 or so an hour for the plane and figure about 30 an hour for instructor. It think it requires at least 20-25 hours of multi time to get the rating, so do the math there. CFI doesnt do anything for you unless you just want to build up hours, but probably wouldnt work with being a military pilot. To get CFI I'm pretty sure you just the hours, which you already have and a commercial ticket. Then you just take the written test and practical test. Best thing to do is see if you have any buddies that are into GA that either own or own part of a multiengine plane who may rent it to you. Or even better is a newly aquired friend who is both a CFI and airplane owner. Also, just off the top of my head...I am pretty sure you have to get a single engine aka non rotorcraft instrument rating. Not that it would be hard, but I am pretty sure they are different ratings ie helo instrument ratings are not applicable in fixed wing aircraft. Read FAR 41 and 61 that has all the hour requiremtents and whatnot.

 

[FlytheBall]

Yeah its late and i didnt see that you already had the instrument airplane rating. My bad, time for bed.

 

[Harrier Dude]

[B Oh, yeah ... an MA didn't hurt, either.

"Knowledges" ... also known as an "insurance policy".[/B]



But don't discount the "knowledges" ....

Amen to that.

I have always planned on going to the airlines once the fun of military flying/life wore off (not sure it ever will), but all of my buds who got out in 99/00 are ALL out of work now. That scared the crap out of me. I started looking around at what jobs were available to a guy with a sociology degree with a 2.5, and it didn't take long. Slurpees anybody? You want fries with that?

That was the motivation I needed to go get an MBA. I'm glad I did. If the airlines don't work out in a few years, I'll have some backstop.

Do the airlines actually care about a Masters? I didn't think they would.

 

[HAL Pilot]

To do multiengine its about 180 or so an hour for the plane and figure about 30 an hour for instructor. It think it requires at least 20-25 hours of multi time to get the rating, so do the math there. .....Read FAR 41 and 61 that has all the hour requiremtents and whatnot.

Under part 61, it's train to proficiency. For someone with MaterBates background, probably 8 to 10 hours for his multi commercial ticket - it hinges mostly around his instrument proficiency. I signed off one guy with 2 flights / 4 hours of instruction to take his commercial check ride.

Under part 141 it's however many hours the schools FAA approved program calls for. But I doubt it's 20 to 25 hours. I seem to remember it was 12 hours minimum at the last place I instructed (6 or 7 years ago...) Since he is talking GI Bill, he has to use a part 141 program.

20-25 hours for a light twin piston ticket is way too much.

You can get a 737 type & ATP for as cheap as $5000 but $7000 to $8000 is what the more reputable part 142 training centers charge (i.e. those with the SWA connections...). However, to get a type rating from using a class C or D simulator alone, you need the following experience:

Hold a type rating in a turbojet airplane,OR have been appointed by a military service as a PIC of a multi-engine turbojet airplane. Military time qualifies at the commercial pilot level if proficiency (NATOPS) check and 10 hrs of flight time are documented.

OR

Have at least 2000 hours of flight time, of which 500 hours must be in multi-engine turbine powered airplanes. (turboprop and/or turbojet)

OR

Have at least 500 hours of flight time in the aircraft for which you are seeking the type rating

OR

Has at least 1000 hours of flight time in at least two different airplanes requiring a type rating.

You can still get a type rating if you don't meet any of the above criteria but you will need to do some of the training in an actual aircraft and that is really expensive (at least $10k and hour for the 727 I current fly probably a little less for a 737 if you can find an insurance company to insure a training flight and get TSA approval to conduct it.)

Plus to get the ATP for an airplane, in addition to the total flight time requirements (1500 total, 500 cross country, 100 night, 75 instrument), you must have 250 hours in an airplane as PIC to include 100 hours cross country and 25 hours night.

Based on what he posted, getting a 737 type & ATP is not an option for MasterBates right now.

 

[HAL Pilot]

but all of my buds who got out in 99/00 are ALL out of work now. That scared the crap out of me. ......Do the airlines actually care about a Masters? I didn't think they would.

They could be flying if they were willing to go to a regional airline. But they would have to put up with the $18-$20k/year starting pay there and a couple of years not making more than $30k/year. I refused to go back to that when I got furloughed from Hawaiian and have managed to scrape by making about $36-$40k/year as a contract pilot. The only reason I have been able to do this is because I "know people" in this side of the business.

FedEx, Southwest, UPS, Continental and Jet Blue are hiring but again it helps to know people (except for Southwest - they are great in that and many other respects. I wish they'd call me....). Plus if these guys are furloughed like I am, that hurts their "hirablity" although that is lessening as furloughs are entering their 5th year and major airline salaries/work rules have been slashed.

Masters? Unless you're going for a management position - not needed and won't help.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Multi Engine, for as little as possible out of pocket.

As an alternate, I was thinking of getting my CFI first if it would be more cost-effective and allow me to build some non-rotorcraft flight time and possibly make enough that the ME rating is costing me nothing but time.

In addition to the Navy flying club at NAS Jax, you might check out ATPs which is headquartered there in Jacksonville. Their website is http://www.atpflightschool.com. They have a 4 day / 10 hour multi course for about $2800. It might be cheaper even though they are not GI Bill approved. They also do instructor ratings.

You can do instructor ratings in any order. It might be more cost effective to combine the mutli-engine commercial ride with a MEI ride and than add on a CFI rating. This would give you more options to build hours as an instructor. Just something else to think about.

 

[pittflyer]

Yeah it’s Oklahoma and not the most sexy flying...But the above conversation makes E-6's look like one unbelievable deal. (What with the 737 they fly as a trainer both in the FRS and Sea Squadrons, plus that B707 MDS time.)