All things MV-22 Osprey

[hscs]

I would say that an 84' width for an MV-22 is a significant difference from the 51' width for a -46 (I am using globalsecurity.org's numbers -- so if NATOPS says differently let me know).

The "never seeing one land" comment was directed at the speed. From looking at the pictures -- the aircraft appears to stay in the dust cloud for a long time -- implying one of two things -- a slow approach or a poorly shot brownout approach. Either way, slow approaches make the sh--heads run like cockroaches -- they hear you coming (to say nothing about brownout/whiteout issues).

The nice thing about using the V-22 as a COD replacement would be the ability to carry loads that don't do well under the shock of a cat shot. If the MV-22's DLQ currency is similar to most fleet helos -- staying night current will be much easier than a COD guy staying CQ current -- this would allow more flexibility with log runs.

 

[phrogdriver]

I would say that an 84' width for an MV-22 is a significant difference from the 51' width for a -46 (I am using globalsecurity.org's numbers -- so if NATOPS says differently let me know).

Think -46 sideways. Just rethink the axis of the zone.

I would still submit the approach on short final is pretty close to being as fast as any helo of comparable size. The dust cloud starts earlier because the wake interaction leads to certain areas of intense rotorwash. As I've stated before, the total rotorwash is the same as any 40,000lb aircraft, but it's very concentrated in some areas.

Taking this to the larger picture from IP inbound, which is where the bad guys will hear or see you, this aircraft has a much lower audio signature and traverses the distance much more quickly. I'll take a couple extra seconds from 20 feet down, which I don't necessarily grant to begin with, in exchange for travelling nearly 4 NM a minute inbound.

 

[hscs]

Yeah, but a 46 would still land in a smaller zone -- area wise.

The other question would be -- could it land out of the wind?

 

[phrogdriver]

Yeah, but a 46 would still land in a smaller zone -- area wise.

The other question would be -- could it land out of the wind?

Uh...no, not by an appreciable margin. The Osprey is about 6 feet longer than the -46's width, and about 4' narrower than a -46's length. Also, I can use a hover display and a coupled hover to help me come vertically down in a confined space if required, plus I have the power to do that, which a -46 often doesn't. Additionally, if I want I can point the nose nearly 10 deg down while maintaining a stationary hover to maintain good vis on my intended point of landing--something no other aircraft can do.

Yes, it can land out of the wind. It doesn't virtually disregard winds, like the -46 does, but it's fine. I'd still put it ahead of must tail-rotor helos in this regard.

 

[chupacabra]

I had a discussion last week with a recon Marine about the V-22, and he said they were unable to fast-rope out of the Osprey, and the prop wash made exiting the aircraft for a jump more difficult than from a phrog.

Of course, we were drinking, and I may have misconstrued what he said, but he seemed to prefer the phrog or even a -53 for the special ops stuff.

 

[hscs]

Phrog --

What about a circular CAL? A -22 is still bigger.

Any truth to the above comment about fastroping?

 

[HeyJoe]

The nice thing about using the V-22 as a COD replacement would be the ability to carry loads that don't do well under the shock of a cat shot. If the MV-22's DLQ currency is similar to most fleet helos -- staying night current will be much easier than a COD guy staying CQ current -- this would allow more flexibility with log runs.

Also nice not to have to have a fixed wing ready deck to bring it aboard, which has always been nice for VERTREP or any helos for that matter. Having to respot the deck just for a COD hit on a no fly day or tie it into cyclic ops is less desirable than having ability to bring it aboard upon arrival with minimal deck space required. I'm sure COD drivers get tired of Starboard D (I sure did as a passenger...speaking of cat shots...I never liked the backwards cat shot without an ejection seat and would rather go for HV-22 option if and when it is funded)

 

[phrogdriver]

The only time the axis of the zone thing could bite you is landing on a road surrounded by buildings. Obviously going perpendicular to the road is less advantageous than going long axis.

As far as FAST roping--I haven't done it in a V-22. But it has been done before and continues to be done. The first time a unit does it in a completely new aircraft there are bound to be difficulties, but they can be addressed by new tactics, techniques, and procedures. There's nothing inherently unsound about doing FAST rope in a V-22.

 

[60B Rotorhead]

The one time I saw a -22 land at South Whiting it looked like a rather slow approach on final to me, but there was no one shooting at them either.
It is a really cool machine having been into the cockpit of one at Pax. The cargo area is really small looking though.
I would think the Navy would utilize primarily helo pilots (or at least augment fixed wing training with some rotary) due to things like Vortex ring state that fixed wing pilots aren't familiar with. Also, I have to wonder if one gets stuck on the boat overnight, where are they going to put it? I don't think they could get it into the hangar due to the size of the props since they can't be rotated fore-aft on the deck. I think it would be REALLY cool to fly, I just don't know that it necessarily has a place in the Navy.

 

[phrogdriver]

I would think the Navy would utilize primarily helo pilots (or at least augment fixed wing training with some rotary) due to things like Vortex ring state that fixed wing pilots aren't familiar with. Also, I have to wonder if one gets stuck on the boat overnight, where are they going to put it? I don't think they could get it into the hangar due to the size of the props since they can't be rotated fore-aft on the deck. I think it would be REALLY cool to fly, I just don't know that it necessarily has a place in the Navy.

The pilots are mostly helo pilots because that's what it's replacing. There are several f/w guys who fly it though, and they do fine. It's an airplane that lands like a helo, not a helo that flies like an airplane.

It folds into an area about the same size as the fuselage footprint.

 

[HeyJoe]

Back to regularly scheduled thread:

Osprey will miss Paris Airshow, but is looking good otherwise

 

[GaugeNeeded]

Can you imagine the look on their faces the first time they see it?!?!

 

[ChuckMK23]

USMC MV-22B To Self Deploy To Iraq

Rotor and Wing Magazine is reporting that VMM-263 will self deploy their 10+ MV-22B aircraft to Al Asad AB. The intent is to highlight the V-22's self deployment features and wioll be supported by KC-130 tanker aircraft.

All I can say is.... I hope the relief tubes were installed properly!

C.

 

[phrogdriver]

All I can say is.... I hope the relief tubes were installed properly!

No relief tubes, just piddle packs!

 

[FMRAM]

Couldn't you just walk to the back and use a gatorade bottle or something?