All things MV-22 Osprey

[Hard Clutch]

....because they didn't wife up the first stripper to give them the time of day.

Tell me about it.


There's plenty stories like Roger's floating around. And not just limited to the V-22. The question I can't get answered is why the 1yr backlog for starting V-22 FRS? This backlog seems to be the true reason for re-designation out of the V-22 pipeline. I can understand it if the plane had mech issues that needed to be cleared, but the 22 is flying at New River and this backlog predates the Japan crash.

 

[JTS11]

Single E-5s with their WTI patch and CDQ stamp being forced to live in the barracks because they didn't wife up the first stripper to give them the time of day.

Curious if there's a demand signal for qualified mechs from the airlines. A topic I haven't seen discussed on here I don't think.

Which is how we're now getting O-4s from the HMLAs and HMHs assigned as VMM DHs.

Man, that's got to be a tough gig to roll up into a new T/M/S as a DH. (I'm assuming they're not transitioning?)

Doesn't help that some squadrons also have mid-level instructors outright refusing to fly because we've had so many high-profile mishaps in the last 2 years and now they don't trust the plane.

Are they requiring these dudes to voluntary terminate their flight status?

 

[Roger_Waveoff]

Curious if there's a demand signal for qualified mechs from the airlines. A topic I haven't seen discussed on here I don't think.

Man, that's got to be a tough gig to roll up into a new T/M/S as a DH. (I'm assuming they're not transitioning?)

Are they requiring these dudes to voluntary terminate their flight status?

Vast majority of EAS'ing crew chiefs and mechanics I've talked to want nothing to do with aviation maintenance as civilians. The ones that do usually do contract maintenance on base or at one of the FRCs.

These DHs would go to -204 and transition, yes.

Not that I've heard of. Ironically, nobody in my squadron is doing that, despite the fact that we're flying 3-4 times more than almost every other VMM. Just secondhand word-of-mouth stuff.

 

[JTS11]

These DHs would go to -204 and transition, yes.

Got it.

Still would be challenging to be a boot WRT to the airframe and be a DH. But I guess it's been happening from the start of the transition, but surprised to hear it's needed these days, long since the transition has been complete. I'm guessing maybe there's a surplus of HMH and HMLA pilots?

 

[Roger_Waveoff]

I'm guessing maybe there's a surplus of HMH and HMLA pilots?

Have been for a few years now. Force Design 2030 deactivated multiple HMHs and HMLAs with no plans to bring them back. It deactivated a few VMMs, too, but HQMC walked that decision back somewhat and instead opted for the same number of squadrons but with 10 instead of 12 aircraft assigned to each one.

End result = lots of rotary-wing O-4s and O-4 selects who may have otherwise been on the "golden path," don't have airline minimums, and timing won't work out for every one of them to stay both 1) in the fleet AND 2) in their original T/M/S.

 

[Hotdogs]

These DHs would go to -204 and transition, yes.

Got it.

Still would be challenging to be a boot WRT to the airframe and be a DH. But I guess it's been happening from the start of the transition, but surprised to hear it's needed these days, long since the transition has been complete. I'm guessing maybe there's a surplus of HMH and HMLA pilots?

From what I am tracking, these VMM DHs are typically part of a MEU ACE and fly with their Dets, commute to an HMLA/HMH to fly, or aren’t flying at all. DH bandwidth in the VMM is not the same as an HMLA/HMH DH, and the biggest difference from my buddies who have done it is dealing with the cultural differences. The VMM community beats to a different drum. XO/OpsO/AMO/DOSS generally speaking isn’t that hard to pick up in squadrons that are 1/2 the size of what is considered normal.

They're not board selecting DHs on the TC board to alleviate VMM manning, yet. It is all in-house drug deals to the MAW to assist with manpower issues. Board selected VMM COs are doing full transitions into the community though.

HMLA and HMH manning is “healthy” compared to VMMs, but those communities also have a ton of other billets they’re required to fill. So it’s bad news all around for VMM to continue having manning issues (Same with VMFA/VMGR). They have had issues in the last 2-3 years filling out all of the MAGs with qualified H-1 and H-53 field grade. It’s kind of a free for all now.

 

[JTS11]

From what I am tracking, these VMM DHs are typically part of a MEU ACE and fly with their Dets, commute to an HMLA/HMH to fly, or aren’t flying at all. DH bandwidth in the VMM is not the same as an HMLA/HMH DH, and the biggest difference from my buddies who have done it is dealing with the cultural differences. The VMM community beats to a different drum. XO/OpsO/AMO/DOSS generally speaking isn’t that hard to pick up in squadrons that are 1/2 the size of what is considered normal.

They're not board selecting DHs on the TC board to alleviate VMM manning, yet. It is all in-house drug deals to the MAW to assist with manpower issues. Board selected VMM COs are doing full transitions into the community though.

HMLA and HMH manning is “healthy” compared to VMMs, but those communities also have a ton of other billets they’re required to fill. So it’s bad news all around for VMM to continue having manning issues (Same with VMFA/VMGR). They have had issues in the last 2-3 years filling out all of the MAGs with qualified H-1 and H-53 field grade. It’s kind of a free for all now.

Damn, that doesn't sound good. Even after the Force Design 2030 changes, that they have to basically canny parts is no bueno. I'm sure they'll continue to chase their tail with bonuses to try to fix the problem.

V-22 Osprey could see second life, with new drive system, wings in 2050s

The V-22 could see a second chapter, if the services keep the fuselages beyond the 2050s and give them new wings and drive systems to extend their lives.

www.defensenews.com

But alas, help is on the way! I'm sure the timeline will stay on track

 

[JTS11]

Board selected VMM COs are doing full transitions into the community though.

Honestly, this is not a good sign of the health of the V-22 staffing situation, and probably a kick in the nuts to a 7532 eligible for command that didn't get selected.

 

[Hotdogs]

Honestly, this is not a good sign of the health of the V-22 staffing situation, and probably a kick in the nuts to a 7532 eligible for command that didn't get selected.

It’s a handful every year for the last 3 years or so. Long term under production has run on effects that last for years. They’ll get through the hump and turn it off in a couple of years, probably. Lots of very-highly qualified HMLA/HMH bubbas (due lower # of available commands) get passed for command every year, and to select a body because it’s a body to fill a seat is poor headwork for the command and community writ large.

 

[JTS11]

It’s a handful every year for the last 3 years or so. Long term under production has run on effects that last for years. They’ll get through the hump and turn it off in a couple of years, probably. Lots of very-highly qualified HMLA/HMH bubbas (due lower # of available commands) get passed for command every year, and to select a body because it’s a body to fill a seat is poor headwork for the command and community writ large.

They opened the aperture for the O-5 command board for VMM commands when I was at MMOA in the early 10's. All for -46 dudes with real good paper, but who had no opportunity for operational command in their MOS. I believe a few were selected.

It's just surprising to me that a community that has been 'long' established would have HMLA/HMH bubbas taking command of a VMM.

I think we're saying the same thing? Not sure I interpreted your last sentence correctly.

Under production of 7532's has from the early days been an Achilles heel for the community, and never quite matched up with the AvPlan's aggressive transition. IMO of course. I'm sure there are others who were involved in that process will chime in.

There were challenges in the Y/Z transition, as there will be for any transition, but I believe it was a breeze compared to the V-22 transition. The TC boards should have allowed more slots for -46 dudes earlier along the way.

 

[Roger_Waveoff]

Under production of 7532's has from the early days been an Achilles heel for the community, and never quite matched up with the AvPlan's aggressive transition. IMO of course. I'm sure there are others who were involved in that process will chime in.

The big issue we (the fleet squadrons) have seen is the production throttle is either full open or flight idle, never anywhere in between where it often needs to be. There are a lot of co-pilots who completed the FRS circa 2022 who would argue the Marine Corps vastly overproduced or held them all at the MAG for too long. Some squadrons, such as the ACE for the current West Coast MEU, had the instructor and aircraft readiness depth to absorb 6-8 co-pilots in a relatively short time. Others weren’t even close and are struggling just to get them Night Systems Qualified, let alone to their fiscal year minimum hours.