Let me tell you something! An exercise in self-flagellation

[haimehhh]

some of the pride of serving for the sake of serving may have been diminished

sorry, but f**k that. hell no. no way. i have no idea what the hell else you're doing applying and taking a spot from someone who would bust his ass "for the sake of serving".

 

[Recovering LSO]

I dont have the experience you guys have had but Im just giving a view into how a civilian views all this.

Dude, don't insult the rest of civilian America by pretending to speak for them. You speak for yourself - and you've done quite a bit of it in a brief period of time here today. May be time to take a knee for a bit.

As a whole, we are more innovative, more financially savvy, more progressive, more educated. I think our generation will soon have an effect on the military like we did on the way things are done in the civilian world.

Apparently, you're also the same generation to believe its own press. You're giving the rest of your cohort a bad rap.

Also, it's worth remembering that more educated doesn't necessarily translate to more intelligent. More financially savvy doesn't necessarily translate to financially mature. More progressive... Well, you said you weren't going to get into politics, right?

 

[WildcatAlumni]

Dude, you don't know what you don't know. Step one, deep breath and relax a bit. Suffice it to say that whenever you get to your first permanent duty station, you're going to be there (on average) 3 years. You're going to buy a home there and live in it - just like everybody else. If you leave the area when your tour is up, you'll either sell it or rent it out - just like everybody else.


This made me laugh - quintessential millennial statement. You know, you aren't hiring a caterer. The military is about service and sacrifice - not about providing you with desired experiences. If you come into it with those expectations, you're in for a rude awakening.

Thanks for the info on the housing situation. Sounds a little risking trying to flip a house in three years especially in today's housing climate. I believe Marine Crops Air Stations are usually not in very booming areas so I dont know If I like the sound of making an investment like that.

And I fail to see how many of you think that we can attract the best applicants by using the marketing slogan "yea it sucks but its about service." I know I grew up witnessing pointless wars with many dead that have left us in a worse situation than before. I dont want to sacrifice if thats what my sacrifice is for. I know I have no say in this as 0-1 and I will suck it up and do my job to the best of my abilities without thinking about the greater plan. I dont know any other accepted candidates who agree that our service and sacrifice is for the greater good.
Now the old "we dont promise you a rose garden" slogan is fine for attracting applicants who want a challenge but ignoring other factors of why people serve is stupid. The nature of warfare has changed. Pilots are already obsolete in a variety of roles. I dont even know why the f-35 exists at this point. The most valuable recruit is no longer the classic full metal jacket marine. We need to attract candidates with skills, computer skills in particular. How do we expect to recruit the kids graduating from Standford right now? They probably are much more liberal than I am and see military conflicts of today as unethical. They do not want to sacrifice for that. That is why I am saying we need to aim to change the structure of the military that has failed to change in decades.

The U.S. military in the past has adjusted to change rapidly out of necessity and now has become too slow moving and adverse to any change that needs to be made. It will change and soon.

 

[robav8r]

Dude - you've lost the war and haven't even fought in the first battle. Good luck to you, I wish you success in your endeavors.

 

[wlawr005]

Did your dog die today or what? And the point I was making that changes will have to be made to recruit the best possible applicants. I have seen it in my peer groups that joining, even as an officer is frowned upon. My ex even complained to me that I was "taking the easy way out by joining." Obviously I dumped her for that and other reasons but it does reflect how many people my age view serving. It is viewed as this delay of jumping into the real world. Making the military lifestyle not as much as a sacrifice I think would be a better path than compromising recruiting and getting shittier applicants.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/04/06/personnel-reform/70841130/

Maybe you're mistaken, or misinformed. Maybe you're being purposely naive to try and get a rise out of people. Maybe you're stupid. If so, you need to realize that the purpose of the armed forces is not to give you some visceral experience before you jump out into the real world.

Our purpose is to cross oceans to break people and machines. Or support those that do.

If you think it's about anything else, I'd suggest to at least open yourself up to the fact that you're wrong before you report to Quantico. Or don't. I could care less, but frankly...based on the little I know about you from this board...I wouldn't be surprised if you don't make it through OCS.

 

[Brett327]

I wonder if Gunny Hartman is providing the desired experiences?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Thanks for the info on the housing situation. Sounds a little risking trying to flip a house in three years especially in today's housing climate. I believe Marine Crops Air Stations are usually not in very booming areas so I dont know If I like the sound of making an investment like that.

And I fail to see how many of you think that we can attract the best applicants by using the marketing slogan "yea it sucks but its about service." I know I grew up witnessing pointless wars with many dead that have left us in a worse situation than before. I dont want to sacrifice if thats what my sacrifice is for. I know I have no say in this as 0-1 and I will suck it up and do my job to the best of my abilities without thinking about the greater plan. I dont know any other accepted candidates who agree that our service and sacrifice is for the greater good.
Now the old "we dont promise you a rose garden" slogan is fine for attracting applicants who want a challenge but ignoring other factors of why people serve is stupid. The nature of warfare has changed. Pilots are already obsolete in a variety of roles. I dont even know why the f-35 exists at this point. The most valuable recruit is no longer the classic full metal jacket marine. We need to attract candidates with skills, computer skills in particular. How do we expect to recruit the kids graduating from Standford right now? They probably are much more liberal than I am and see military conflicts of today as unethical. They do not want to sacrifice for that. That is why I am saying we need to aim to change the structure of the military that has failed to change in decades.

The U.S. military in the past has adjusted to change rapidly out of necessity and now has become too slow moving and adverse to any change that needs to be made. It will change and soon.

People here are trying to help you. We are posting here to help you. You know exactly dick about the marine corps. You are making an utter jackass out of yourself. You will have a very rough and very short marine corps experience if you keep running your mouth instead of keeping your ears and eyes open.

I don't have time to waste pointing out each mind blowingly stupid thing you have said.

 

[picklesuit]

Thanks for the info on the housing situation. Sounds a little risking trying to flip a house in three years especially in today's housing climate. I believe Marine Crops Air Stations are usually not in very booming areas so I dont know If I like the sound of making an investment like that.

And I fail to see how many of you think that we can attract the best applicants by using the marketing slogan "yea it sucks but its about service." I know I grew up witnessing pointless wars with many dead that have left us in a worse situation than before. I dont want to sacrifice if thats what my sacrifice is for. I know I have no say in this as 0-1 and I will suck it up and do my job to the best of my abilities without thinking about the greater plan. I dont know any other accepted candidates who agree that our service and sacrifice is for the greater good.
Now the old "we dont promise you a rose garden" slogan is fine for attracting applicants who want a challenge but ignoring other factors of why people serve is stupid. The nature of warfare has changed. Pilots are already obsolete in a variety of roles. I dont even know why the f-35 exists at this point. The most valuable recruit is no longer the classic full metal jacket marine. We need to attract candidates with skills, computer skills in particular. How do we expect to recruit the kids graduating from Standford right now? They probably are much more liberal than I am and see military conflicts of today as unethical. They do not want to sacrifice for that. That is why I am saying we need to aim to change the structure of the military that has failed to change in decades.

The U.S. military in the past has adjusted to change rapidly out of necessity and now has become too slow moving and adverse to any change that needs to be made. It will change and soon.

My advice to you: Go put your computer up for a night, sleep on your deep thoughts, and come back when you can put together a coherent argument with well thought out points. Right now you are embarrassing yourself. While it is enjoyable to watch, you may say something you'll regret in the next 4-8 years in case you actually join those of us delusional enough to serve purely because of service...
Pickle

 

[WildcatAlumni]

sorry, but f**k that. hell no. no way. i have no idea what the hell else you're doing applying and taking a spot from someone who would bust his ass "for the sake of serving".

Youre cherry picking a quote and failing to see the larger point I was making. Morale is at record lows in the military for a variety of reasons. To meet recruitment numbers and quality, we cannot rely on just offering selling "sacrifice." Selling this point alone will not attract the type of applicants needed as well. We dont need mindless grunts as our military's backbone anymore. I dont know if you all are aware that we can no longer meet recruitment needs without compromising but you all seem pretty set on selling the same marketing scheme that is failing.

These are problems I read about in the military and as a future officer, I am keeping aware of current events and trends so I can make a difference. I think there has been a huge issue in the military where differences in opinions have been silenced. My grandfather was a high ranking admiral and he would tell me how impossible the brass was at times. I know he hated arguing about acquisitions and trying to block the Osprey but Marine Corps Generals always get what they want (refer to the F-35B). Im curious what the opinion on the Osprey is here because I have gathered its basically a turkey with no real use.

I do hope to be a different type of officer in my career. I already have shook up things in my OSO'S officer. There was a openly gay applicant who was getting teased by another applicant at a pool event, not blatantly like you would imagine in high school but little comments here and there. I purposely stepped in and said I was gay also and asked him if he had a problem with that (Im actually not). After making him look like an asshole he backed off, I think this is also due to the fact that Im 6'5 and 230 lbs. I really do plan on making changes for the better of the corps in my career and there is nobody that is going to intimidate me.

People here are trying to help you. We are posting here to help you. You know exactly dick about the marine corps. You are making an utter jackass out of yourself. You will have a very rough and very short marine corps experience if you keep running your mouth instead of keeping your ears and eyes open.

And I have been listening to the points you have all made. I appreciate the input from experienced vets like yourself. But you are tending to sound like my dad, a former sub officer who thought the world was ending the day that women were allowed on subs. Who still thinks that homosexuality is some weird reason for disqualification.

 

[haimehhh]

that quote was the core of your entire statement and i just saved the rest of the audience the trouble from having to pick through your bullshit

 

[Recovering LSO]

My grandfather was a high ranking admiral and he would tell me how impossible the brass was at times.

Well shit bro - why didn't you say so earlier? By all means, please continue telling us how we're all fucked up and how you've got it all figured out because you read some books - and had a chat with gramps...

and there is nobody that is going to intimidate me.

Clearly. Not through sheer mass or intelligent discourse.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Morale is at record lows in the military for a variety of reasons.

Yeah, because that is a quantifiable and measurable metric that the military has kept track of for years.

We dont need mindless grunts as our military's backbone anymore. I dont know if you all are aware that we can no longer meet recruitment needs without compromising but you all seem pretty set on selling the same marketing scheme that is failing.

Uh, as was said before, the point of the military is to kill and blow stuff up in the defense of our country and constitution. You need some grunts.

These are problems I read about in the military and as a future officer, I am keeping aware of current events and trends so I can make a difference.

Feel free to offer your input on how things should be done early and often in flight school. It will really be appreciated.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

To set the record straight, you are a candidate, right?

 

[WildcatAlumni]

Well shit bro - why didn't you say so earlier? By all means, please continue telling us how we're all fucked up and how you've got it all figured out because you read some books - and had a chat with gramps...

Clearly. Not through sheer mass or intelligent discourse.

This is how the argument on here has gone down from my point of view:
Me:>Recruiting standards are not being met. Therefore we need to change the structure of the military to attract and retain the best applicants.
>The Nature of warfare has changed we need to attract a different type of applicant.
>We are recruiting a new generation that has grown up in the period of longest extended warfare with the least amount of desired effect resulting. They are likely to not be sold on the idea of fighting for the sake of blind service.
The general consensus on this board: You dont understand, its about service and sacrifice.
Me: I do understand the concept but continuing to sell that concept is not going to solve our problem. I am trying to offer a solution.

The army has been selling this point for a decade now that they are a career booster and it has worked for them but its time for another change. Offering some education benefits is no longer enough as it just makes the military a temporary hoop to jump through, like college.

 

[robav8r]

We don't need mindless grunts as our military's backbone anymore. . . . . . . . . . Im curious what the opinion on the Osprey is here because I have gathered its basically a turkey with no real use.

Here's a thought (and only because I have the time), why don't you hop on down to your nearest VA hospital and ask a combat-wounded Marine about his/her service. Ask them what they think about your idea that we don't need mindless grunts anymore. Then, when you're done, do a little research on the roles & missions currently being filled by the MV-22 now that the CH-46 has been retired. Your statements and ideas are founded in a computer-based, information overload world where access to information is limitless and instantaneous. You think because you are well read, and "understand" the material, it entitles you to make logical conclusions and pass judgement on things you really have no real knowledge of or practical experience in. Think about what I just said here . . .