haimehhh
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I don't have a Twitter but I respect the request and am glad to oblige.
My response didn't transfer when this thread split. Thanks to those who had the power to do that, by the way.
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Let me tell you something! An exercise in self-flagellation
- Thread starter WildcatAlumni
- Start date
FWIW, I don't have a Twitter but I respect the request and am glad to oblige.
My response didn't transfer when this thread split. Thanks to those who had the power to do that, by the way.
As someone who has been a production recruiter as a LT in the 80's and then supported a recruiting HQ as an O-5 through much of the wars you found pointless, and a current USNA admissions liaison, you know nothing about recruiting or marketing the military. Over the decades adjustments are made to accommodate the needs of the military and the prevailing economy, and attitudes and interests of our prospective recruits. It is a huge effort researched and devised by rather smart people and executed by hard working dedicated recruiters. You have no idea what sort of person (educationally, aptitude, morally) the military needs for it's various MOS's, designators and NECs. You have no idea what the current interest level is in the military by American's youth, or how to motivate them, only what you surmise. Just today I check my roster and saw that out of 27 USNA applicants I got 2 selected. The US Navy turned down kids that are going (this is a fact, not "something I read") to many top tier schools including "The Stanford", Princeton, and Georgetown. Yup we sure are sucking at picking up quality.
The Navy isn't always right, but it gets the important things right, sooner or later, almost every time. Improvements will not come from young people shooting off their mouths BEFORE they know what they are talking about. IF you had access to the private Aviators only forums on AW you would see real adults debate issues that our experience tells us needs improvement. There are people here you are lecturing that haven't been sitting around watching the Navy go to hell as you imagine. But are saying their piece and trying to make a difference at every level including senior officers and command.
The Navy isn't always right, but it gets the important things right, sooner or later, almost every time. Improvements will not come from young people shooting off their mouths BEFORE they know what they are talking about. IF you had access to the private Aviators only forums on AW you would see real adults debate issues that our experience tells us needs improvement. There are people here you are lecturing that haven't been sitting around watching the Navy go to hell as you imagine. But are saying their piece and trying to make a difference at every level including senior officers and command.
WildcatAlumni
New Member
I like this post and agree with the points you have made, this post actually did some explaining which I appreciate. I only have to go by what I read right now. I spend a fair amount of time reading scholarly journals on the state of the military and I think they bring something to the table just like vets do. Discounting their opinion is foolish, any organization with only one opinion is condemned to failure.
I appreciate all of the constructive contributions that were posted and your insight. Ill get back to you all when I have that experience and agree with all of your sentiments that everything is ok, or I change it for the better.
While Im at it, Ill throw my idea out there that I think for every major conflict that we enter, we are forced to draft a percentage of the force to be deployed, say 5% or so. There seems to be a general disconnect with the public and military. We have been at war for the longest we ever have been and I know I grew up barely even aware. I knew troops were deployed but I didnt feel any effect of it. We seem to be content to let the fight happen over there as our resources are slowly drained away. Also, people who are closely related to a service member are at all time low. The fighting is left to a very few individuals further disconnecting the public and military. Requiring a draft would really engage the public since the threat of it would make us think twice before entering a conflict. It would make the war seem more "real" to the public.
Curious to what you experienced guys think. I talked about it in my peer group and it got resounding approval.
I don't think that learning has occurred.
A draft in the current military is absurd. One, we don't need one - the military has no trouble filling its needs with volunteers. For a few years in the middle of Iraq the Army was having to accept some people it might've turned away in other years, but those days are over, and it was never the case in any of the other services. So we would either have to turn away volunteers in order to accept draftees, or expand with "make-work" jobs to accommodate those draftees. Two, we have no need for short-service draftees. Every job in the military today requires some sort of technical training. Three, our military disciplinary system is based on the precept that everyone volunteered to be there. Short of grossly criminal acts, we simply kick out those who aren't meeting the standard. There's the fantasy of the tough-as-nails DI whipping slackers into shape, but that's not how it works if they didn't want to be there to begin with. Four, we managed to get into plenty of wars when we did have compulsory national service, so the idea that the government would "think twice" isn't borne out by history.
So it wouldn't benefit the military, or the draftees, or the country...not sure I see why it would be a "great idea".
So it wouldn't benefit the military, or the draftees, or the country...not sure I see why it would be a "great idea".
No, no, no, you don't understand. It was met with "resounding approval" by his idiot audience. He must have a valid point.
Surely any candidate as smart as this one, and as computer savvy, and as concerned about personal information, would know the audience he's courting. And if he knows his audience, he knows there are Marines here. And if he knows the Marine Corps, which surely he does, he knows it's very, very small. So he's probably considered the possibility that every commissioned officer on Quantico, particularly those working OCS and TBS, will be on the look out for a 6'5 240lb 22 year old (almost 23! June 29th! yay!) Villanova graduate who likes to run his mouth and crush puss at the local colleges. There's probably only 3 candidates at OCS/TBS who even meet 10% of the above criteria.
I don't think he's real. Either way, he can get fucked.
I don't think he's real. Either way, he can get fucked.
So I joined just after OttoWrote8/BACONATOR had his little dust-up w/ this site and subsequent OCS "notoriety." How'd that work out? Also I must say that Mr. BACONATOR went on to be a nice guy here, before disappearing a few years ago - possibly to that "other" site.
Also can we please stop feeding the troll?
Also can we please stop feeding the troll?
WildcatAlumni
New Member
Its actually a concept that has been debated in detail but there arguments on both sides of it.
http://www.apus.edu/content/dam/online-library/masters-theses/Saegusa2010.pdf
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...t-Between-Servicemembers-and-Civilian-Society
http://cfif.org/v/index.php/comment...s-distance-between-civilians-and-the-military
http://weldbham.com/blog/2014/07/22/reinstating-the-draft-birmingham/
http://20committee.com/2013/12/25/on-conscription-and-military-effectiveness/
In case any of you are interested these some articles elaborating on the concept, for and against it.
I apologize if I insulted anybody here, I have nothing but respect for the community. I want nothing more than to contribute to the corps and it appears my idealism may be misplaced. I do not want to be a part of the generation of officers who sees our military lose its global edge and from what I read, it seems that is what is currently happening. Listening to those who offered constructive feedback has been helpful, I am probably overestimating the problems.
And so I dont fuck myself at OCS with this attitude, I was under the impression that the Marines want leaders who can think for themselves, "adapt and overcome." I think that is what attracted me to the corps vs the other branches. I seek a challenge and I want to solve problems. Is this not the type of attitude I should demonstrate to OCS instructors?
JoBoy/OttoWrote8/Baconator isn't/won't be at the other site. Even WE have standards...
Once again, Angus' point sails over your head.
Please say exactly that to the first staff sergeant or gunny you see at OCS. They will be impressed. Don't forget a follow up post about how you "decided" the corps wasn't for you after 3-4 weeks of OCS.
Wildcat, here's another book you might find helpful right now:
