Navy or MC Aviation?

[Brett327]

While "true" I wish this notion would go away. While "Navy" vs "Marine first", the best skipper I ever had told all of us JO's the day we became Divo's that "if I ever see your divo job taking precedence over your flying performance/prep/etc I will not be happy". That little bit of guidance made a giant difference in my life, my later career, and left no doubts about what was important. I think every officer should be able to write an eval or some other admin like that, but it should never be at the expense of your ability to do you actual job, which we should never think is anything other than using your airplane as a weapon.

Fuckin' A.

 

[Python]

While "true" I wish this notion would go away. While "Navy" vs "Marine first", the best skipper I ever had told all of us JO's the day we became Divo's that "if I ever see your divo job taking precedence over your flying performance/prep/etc I will not be happy". That little bit of guidance made a giant difference in my life, my later career, and left no doubts about what was important. I think every officer should be able to write an eval or some other admin like that, but it should never be at the expense of your ability to do you actual job, which we should never think is anything other than using your airplane as a weapon.

I've been waiting for someone to say this for a while. Well written. I wish the "aviator second" thing would go away as well. It's naive. Some basic things should be known as you said, but they are secondary.

 

[whitesoxnation]

I've always wondered if grunts say "Marine first, grunt second"

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I've always wondered if grunts say "Marine first, grunt second"

I know you're joking, but for them, their weapons system is their marines.

The marine first, pilot second thing sounds nice but midnjac is right. If we cared most about combat effectiveness instead of making sure all officers are interchangeable widgets at the O-6 level up, we would buy into that philosophy more. In my opinion it's one thing the navy gets right and we don't. "Marine first" is mostly a bullshit phrase for a crappy manning policy. It's idiotic to have 20(ish) pilots in a squadron, 12(ish) on their first tour, and boot FNG's pretending they know shit about how to be an adjutant or logistician. We would be a more effective organization if they let pilots be pilots.

 

[jtmedli]

......bullshit phrase for a crappy manning policy.....We would be a more effective organization if they let pilots be pilots.

I think a lot of people in the Navy would still use these statements to describe how we operate. Pilots going through 2 years of flight school to do 1 flying tour and then never see a grey aircraft again means something is pretty broken over on our side too. Albeit that may be helo community specific.

 

[Farva01]

I think every officer should be able to write an eval or some other admin like that, but it should never be at the expense of your ability to do you actual job, which we should never think is anything other than using your airplane as a weapon.

I am from the school of thought that I am a Naval Officer first and a Naval Aviator second. When I think of being a Naval Officer, it is not writing Evals or other admin, but rather being a leader. Leading my Sailors so they ensure my weapon system is ready to go when the time comes.

 

[LFCFan]

I am from the school of thought that I am a Naval Officer first and a Naval Aviator second. When I think of being a Naval Officer, it is not writing Evals or other admin, but rather being a leader. Leading my Sailors so they ensure my weapon system is ready to go when the time comes.

It seems like that part gets lost on a lot of people. Almost every time I've heard someone use the "naval officer first" phrase, it has been to justify admin or collateral duties, not to remind people of their roles of leading people into combat or leading those who support combat.

 

[Python]

There are many people who join JUST to be pilots. Many of those succeed as officers and move on to great things later in their career and consider themselves pilots first. I promise there are people who simply would not want to be an Officer if it meant being a SWO, or Submariner, or SEAL (and vice versa for guys in those professions). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

 

[Spekkio]

It seems like that part gets lost on a lot of people. Almost every time I've heard someone use the "naval officer first" phrase, it has been to justify admin or collateral duties, not to remind people of their roles of leading people into combat or leading those who support combat.

But when JO and DH pilots are leading people into combat, they're going to do it while flying an aircraft. Hmmm...

I mostly find the 'officer first' thing in the Navy to be nothing more than a meaningless catch phrase people throw around because they think that they are supposed to. The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. It's part of our service culture to say "I'm a pilot" or "I'm a submariner" or "I'm an intel officer," and that is completely okay. Ditto on the enlisted end - you'll find guys tell you that they're a mechanic or a quartermaster or whatever, no one says "I'm a sailor first!"

 

[LFCFan]

There are many people who join JUST to be pilots. Many of those succeed as officers and move on to great things later in their career and consider themselves pilots first. I promise there are people who simply would not want to be an Officer if it meant being a SWO, or Submariner, or SEAL (and vice versa for guys in those professions). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Agreed. This was something that bugged me at OCS when they would try and deal with people who got NAMI whammied - "but you came here to be an officer" - well, not really, because if there was no such thing as naval aviation a lot of people on here would be in the Army or AF.

But when JO and DH pilots are leading people into combat, they're going to do it while flying an aircraft. Hmmm...

I mostly find the 'officer first' thing in the Navy to be nothing more than a meaningless catch phrase people throw around because they think that they are supposed to. The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. It's part of our service culture to say "I'm a pilot" or "I'm a submariner" or "I'm an intel officer," and that is completely okay. Ditto on the enlisted end - you'll find guys tell you that they're a mechanic or a quartermaster or whatever, no one says "I'm a sailor first!"

I wouldn't call it meaningless, but I do agree that people throw it around because they are supposed to, and I agree with everything else you said (your point about pilots was also something to which I was alluding). I'd add to what you said about the enlisted side and say how unusual it is when a sailor introduces themselves as "Petty Officer" rather than by their rate.

 

[CommodoreMid]

It's cheesy, but I think the "Mission First, Sailors Always" thing really encapsulates this discussion. As a pilot/NFO your primary job is to make sure you kick ass in the air, but you should never do it at the expense of/on the backs of the guys who are busting their asses to get you in the air. If you have AWs in your platform, it's also your job to ensure they kick ass in the air as well, since they're always going to look to you for what to do next when shit hits the fan while flying.

 

[Farva01]

There are many people who join JUST to be pilots. Many of those succeed as officers and move on to great things later in their career and consider themselves pilots first. I promise there are people who simply would not want to be an Officer if it meant being a SWO, or Submariner, or SEAL (and vice versa for guys in those professions). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

I agree that there isn't anything wrong with just wanting to fly. Those people should not be surprised by getting passed over for O-4 or beyond.

 

[Gatordev]

I always looked at it like this: I joined the Navy to fly. But I knew there was no free lunch, and the price to play was to lead people (whatever that might mean throughout your career). Leading people usually comes with admin, so that's part of the price, as well.

I've found that as long as I kept up my part of the bargain, it made it much easier to keep flying throughout my entire career.

 

[Tobe]

could be, but unless he goes to Pensacola pretty much a waste of time.

I have seen guys told they were getting a "flight physical" but what was really happening is they had a normal physical but were told they were "cleared for aviation programs"

The recruiter I'm working for said before ocs I'll fly out to pensacola to do the flight physical and it's a "two day affair." It sounds pretty legitimate.

 

[LFCFan]

The recruiter I'm working for said before ocs I'll fly out to pensacola to do the flight physical and it's a "two day affair." It sounds pretty legitimate.

A-friggin-mazing. That's good to hear. I'm sure the HR LT in Callaghan Hall just had his life get a little easier.

Follow up question: Is this for everyone, or are they doing something in between like IDing people who are likely to need lots of waivers and getting them down there?