First of Navy's new CWO Aviators pin on their wings!

[Nose]

I will say this though, senior Army leadership (O-6 and up) comes across as not understanding how best to use their aviation assets.

Great post.


We have enough problems in the Navy with leadership acting (at times) clueless - let's not cut into their tactical knowledge too!

 

[Nose]

I may have spent a lot of time in the Trident Room, but I still got SOMETHING out of ASO school.

Still have your mug? I drank a shit-ton (that's metric) of Anchor Steam, ate 14lbs of popcorn and lowered my handicap 2 strokes at ASO.

 

[Scoob]

Still have your mug? I drank a shit-ton (that's metric) of Anchor Steam, ate 14lbs of popcorn and lowered my handicap 2 strokes at ASO.

You know it!!! Fat Tire, prime rib, peanuts, popcorn, sea kayaking w/ otters, 40min drive to Salinas for an In n Out, hiking the redwoods, lots more Fat Tire.

...and a drive of shame from some dirty whoooooore.


Good times. Damn criminal moving it to NPA.

 

[MasterBates]

You were waaaay too happy for that TAD Scoob.

 

[bobbybrock]

Aviation units are typically part of a Regiment that is organic to a Division. So when the Division plans an engagement or battle, they have their own aviation units that they can assign whatever OpOrder they deem necessary. This is, of course, a generalization. There are aviation units outside of the aviation regiment but still in the Division. Most of your Air Ambulance units fall into this category. My first Army Reserve aviation unit was in the standard aviation regiment T.O. for an Army Reserve Division. We were a "lift" Company and flew UH-1H's (slicks) doing ass & trash type stuff. My last AR unit was an Air Ambulance unit and we belonged to a Medical Brigade. Still in the same Division as the rest of the aviation units, but since they have a completely different role, they let the docs decide what to do and where to go.

Where I am going with all this is that yes, there are lots of support roles for Army Aviation units (the lift companies and Air Ambulance), but a -58 and a -64 flying together looking for bad guys is NOT a support.

Actually things have changed quite a bit. Medevac units used to be either part of DISCOM or COSCOM and not a subordinate division unit. They know fall under the aviation brigade. All dust off units are part of the General Support Aviation Battalion. They are grouped with 8 generl support blackhawks and 10 CH-47 chinnoks. This is the Army's latest scheme to make every unit interchangable or modualr as they call it. So the 101st aviation brigades looks just like the 82nd's or 25th. They even have the guard modeled the same way. My guard med unit was recently reflagged to fit this model.
The only med units not in this model are the few remaining H-1 dustoff units in the guard.

 

[HeloBubba]

Actually things have changed quite a bit. Medevac units used to be either part of DISCOM or COSCOM and not a subordinate division unit. They know fall under the aviation brigade. All dust off units are part of the General Support Aviation Battalion. They are grouped with 8 generl support blackhawks and 10 CH-47 chinnoks. This is the Army's latest scheme to make every unit interchangable or modualr as they call it. So the 101st aviation brigades looks just like the 82nd's or 25th. They even have the guard modeled the same way. My guard med unit was recently reflagged to fit this model.
The only med units not in this model are the few remaining H-1 dustoff units in the guard.

Thank you for bringing me up to speed. I have been out of the Reserves for...shit...13 years now. I was in one of the last Army Reserve aviation units before the aviation role transitioned to the Guard.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I never got the idea that the Navy's going to an Army (WO-pilot-centric) model. More that the concept was the WOs would be there to augment the URL aviators...sort of "cockpit SMEs," I suppose.

I seriously doubt that the problem in the Navy will ever be that the FWOs are bogarting all the flight time. If anything, it'll be the opposite - there will be so few of them, relatively speaking, that some skippers will pigeonhole them into ground jobs and favor the URL aviators with hours "because they need the flight time for advancement".

I can totally see some 'I'm skipper now, I can rearrange the universe to my whimsy' type guy saying, "well, what does it matter if CWO Bob makes HAC this tour? He's just going to come back to the Fleet in 33 months. He'll get nothing and like it."

 

[bobbybrock]

Regualr Officers in Army Aviation serve as instructor pilots in only one place. The school house and that is in a limited capacity. At the unit level all instructor pilot slots are for warrant officers. The Brigades Stands pilot is a CW05. The Battalions is a CW04 and the company's are CW02's and CW03's.
I think you have to look at the entire reason for the Army Warrant Pilot. It was established in the 50's to get people into the cockpit. These days we'd deplete our regualr officer corps trying to fill our cockpits. I believe the Army standard is to have two crews or maybe one and one half per airframe.
That makes for a lot of personnel with over 6500 dual pilot aircraft.
In the beging the army Warrants were limited in their duties. I believe that most aircraft commanders and IP's were regular officers. The fixed wing community back then was alomost exclusivley regulars officers. There was even a disperity in flight pay. It took Vietnam to really break alot of these barriers.
It seems like the Navy plan is more of an augmentation to the force rather than a force itself.
It will be intresting to see what happnes with the program.

 

[highside7r]

Sorry to revive this thread. Ex Helo AW trying to get back in the Navy after seeing the light and 2 OIF tours flying for the darkside (Army). Should have stuck around for this program and would've been one of the first guys to get winged for sure. Anyone have some info on doing yet another interservice transfer back to the Navy? How are these guys doing in the Fleet?

 

[e6bflyer]

Too early to tell how they are doing and how they will be received in the long run. The pilots haven't been winged yet. A great group of guys to be sure, but a tough fit in the traditional squadron and the way things are currently done in Naval Aviation.

 

[bobbybrock]

It will be interesting to see if the Navy starts taking branch transfers. I always thought the CG was pretty smart in how it augmented its force. Where else can you find a 2000 hr pilot without having to spend much on his training? What's the old saying?Where do you find the best Army pilots? The Coast Guard and the Air Force.

 

[highside7r]

Heard it, I'm out on the "time in service" for the Coasties, the AF Reserves are looking good, especially with that very slim chance of flying A-10's.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Heard it, I'm out on the "time in service" for the Coasties, the AF Reserves are looking good, especially with that very slim chance of flying A-10's.

How much time in service do you have? The Coasties were accepting waivers for time in service as of the last board...

 

[highside7r]

10 Navy, 5 Army. A few other guys in my unit are looking into the USCG, I heard 10yrs Fed service and could understand that they do want to get something out of you before 20 yrs. If there is a waiver, I'll look into it.

 

[docpup]

highside7r,

If you can get your hands on a copy of "Rotor Review", a EX-LCDR now USCG LTJG has a pretty informal but informative series of articles about his transition process to the USCG. His name is Todd "Stalker" Vornkamp (or kemp), he flew 46's, H3's, and 60's prior to getting picked up. Not sure what is time in service was, but pretty close to 10-13 years.