Officer Recruiter Problems and the Pilot Board

[zippy]

I really appreciate you looking into this. So if I’m reading this correctly I the fact that I was an Olympic level Track cyclist doesn’t out weigh my GPA?

Did you medal and can the Navy benefit from positive PR from it? If not, the above is probably 100% true.

 

[Grapeape]

Did you medal and can the Navy benefit from positive PR from it? If not, the above is probably 100% true.

Well yes but not in the olympics. National medal and I hold a few national records as well as a few class 1 and 2 gold medals and track records.

 

[Swanee]

Well yes but not in the olympics. National medal and I hold a few national records as well as a few class 1 and 2 gold medals and track records.

It's too bad you didn't do that as a Midshipman. But "I proved I can ride a bike fast" =/= "I proved academically that I can study well enough to understand how aircraft systems work, or how to employ a complex weapons system in a dynamic environment".

The old guys around here who used to chime in on these threads would always say, "The choices you make in life follow you for the rest of your life."

You chased the bike dream. You did something that a lot of people didn't get the opportunity to do. But those choices have consequences for the other parts of your life too.

 

[Grapeape]

It's too bad you didn't do that as a Midshipman. But "I proved I can ride a bike fast" =/= "I proved academically that I can study well enough to understand how aircraft systems work, or how to employ a complex weapons system in a dynamic environment".

The old guys around here who used to chime in on these threads would always say, "The choices you make in life follow you for the rest of your life."

You chased the bike dream. You did something that a lot of people didn't get the opportunity to do. But those choices have consequences for the other parts of your life too.
[/QUOTEñ

I understand those 2 examples sent
congruent but I would have hope to see that some one would understand the level of dedication to accomplish those goals.
I understand all the other reasons

So what should I do? Stop trying because I decided to fill one dream before the other?

 

[Swanee]

So what should I do? Stop trying because I decided to fill one dream before the other?

You should be realistic about what your paper trail says about you and your capabilities.

 

[zippy]

So what should I do? Stop trying because I decided to fill one dream before the other?

I doubt that your personality and drive to succeed would allow for that. I’ve got a buddy who finished college then enlisted in the Army and became WO and ended up in the 160th. PM me your contact info and I’ll see if he’s willing to talk about his path and help you determine if your Academic background will be a barrier on the route he chose.

 

[nodropinufaka]

You should be realistic about what your paper trail says about you and your capabilities.

I feel like this is an extremely unfair assessment on an individual.

GPA is a very small indication of someone and their abilities.

cause let’s be serious- the guys that go to the academy, through college with parents paying for them, scholarship, etc are going to have a better opportunity for a higher GPA compared to the individual who worked 20-30 hours a week in addition to class work and labs.

I know guys who worked and had very low GPAs for that reason who went on to become very successful and do well in and out of the military and I know guys who had 3.8 GPAS in Aero Engineering from USNA fail out of API.

It’s not like the individual you’re talking too is a criminal with a criminal paper trail. They’re a world class athlete who now wants to serve.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

cause let’s be serious- the guys that go to the academy, through college with parents paying for them, scholarship, etc are going to have a better opportunity for a higher GPA compared to the individual who worked 20-30 hours a week in addition to class work and labs.

You probably won't like what I am going to say, but I have heard it from CEC accessions officers who make CEC picks, and senior officers who have sat GENOFF boards, what they have said and this was in response to me asking the question, of shouldn't we take into account a person working through college as a reason for a lower GPA, and the response was "if they are having trouble maintaining decent grades maybe they should take fewer classes or find a way to not work as much, they will be expected to multitask as officers and they won't get any slack cut in the fleet".

 

[nodropinufaka]

You probably won't like what I am going to say, but I have heard it from CEC accessions officers who make CEC picks, and senior officers who have sat GENOFF boards, what they have said and this was in response to me asking the question, of shouldn't we take into account a person working through college as a reason for a lower GPA, and the response was "if they are having trouble maintaining decent grades maybe they should take fewer classes or find a way to not work as much, they will be expected to multitask as officers and they won't get any slack cut in the fleet".

yea of course they’ll say that after having very little experience in the private sector and being completely detached from reality while active duty for that long.

Im not saying that you should get credit for working or anything of the sort.

just that a GPA is a very poor indicator of performance in the workplace.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

yea of course they’ll say that after having very little experience in the private sector and being completely detached from reality while active duty for that long.

Im not saying that you should get credit for working or anything of the sort.

just that a GPA is a very poor indicator of performance in the workplace.

maybe, being in Talent Acquisition I get to see a bit more than some and those with high GPA's tend to be more of the over-achiever type, those who have had lower GPA's have seemed to be the ones who are happy to just do what they need to do. This of course is not true for everyone, I have seen people with just a HS diploma be rockstars and ones with high GPA and advanced degrees be awful because they received no guidance.

Nothing is perfect, it never will be. It just sucks for the ones that didn't have a great college career who are really good leaders.

 

[nodropinufaka]

maybe, being in Talent Acquisition I get to see a bit more than some and those with high GPA's tend to be more of the over-achiever type, those who have had lower GPA's have seemed to be the ones who are happy to just do what they need to do. This of course is not true for everyone, I have seen people with just a HS diploma be rockstars and ones with high GPA and advanced degrees be awful because they received no guidance.

Nothing is perfect, it never will be. It just sucks for the ones that didn't have a great college career who are really good leaders.

Did some hiring as well and a big indicator were the ones who had 10+ years work experience and were clinging to their degree and GPA. That was usually a very strong indicator they were going to be a poor performer.

At 10+ years the only thing anyone cared about what your experience and if you went to a top rank school

 

[Swanee]

I feel like this is an extremely unfair assessment on an individual.

GPA is a very small indication of someone and their abilities.

cause let’s be serious- the guys that go to the academy, through college with parents paying for them, scholarship, etc are going to have a better opportunity for a higher GPA compared to the individual who worked 20-30 hours a week in addition to class work and labs.

I know guys who worked and had very low GPAs for that reason who went on to become very successful and do well in and out of the military and I know guys who had 3.8 GPAS in Aero Engineering from USNA fail out of API.

It’s not like the individual you’re talking too is a criminal with a criminal paper trail. They’re a world class athlete who now wants to serve.

On paper they look like a world class athlete who doesn't have the capability to achieve academically.

This has been told to me throughout my entire career- You're only as good as your paper trail says you are.

All boards are paper boards. Everyone knows folks who have gotten a P or two because they didn't follow the golden path, or because their leadership didn't give them the right kind of paperwork, or because of a velvet dagger, or whatever have you. That's life in the military- is it not?

You're not wrong though; I had a low GPA when I came in (2.9) and have one okay for myself, all things considered.

However, the only reason I got in was because in 2008/2009 the Marine Corps had a huge plus up in manpower. Even then, I don't think someone with a sub 2.0 is going to get into OCS off the street.



BTW- the only place where boards aren't simply who's paper trail is better? The Guard.

 

[nodropinufaka]

On paper they look like a world class athlete who doesn't have the capability to achieve academically.

This has been told to me throughout my entire career- You're only as good as your paper trail says you are.

All boards are paper boards. Everyone knows folks who have gotten a P or two because they didn't follow the golden path, or because their leadership didn't give them the right kind of paperwork, or because of a velvet dagger, or whatever have you. That's life in the military- is it not?

You're not wrong though; I had a low GPA when I came in (2.9) and have one okay for myself, all things considered.

However, the only reason I got in was because in 2008/2009 the Marine Corps had a huge plus up in manpower. Even then, I don't think someone with a sub 2.0 is going to get into OCS off the street.



BTW- the only place where boards aren't simply who's paper trail is better? The Guard.

You are 100 percent spot on re paper trails and boards.

I guess my comment was more of the system the Military created with it and how dumb it is.

 

[Pags]

You are 100 percent spot on re paper trails and boards.

I guess my comment was more of the system the Military created with it and how dumb it is.

We have to keep in mind that the military (except the guard and the reserves) isn't hiring mid grade people. They're hiring folks into entry level posotions that are in a system that requires a high degree of academic acumen. This is even more so in most USN jobs where quals are everything and physical fitness is a nice to have. No one cares if you run a sub 4min mile if you're going to fail API, not get a pin on time, etc.

 

[nodropinufaka]

We have to keep in mind that the military (except the guard and the reserves) isn't hiring mid grade people. They're hiring folks into entry level posotions that are in a system that requires a high degree of academic acumen. This is even more so in most USN jobs where quals are everything and physical fitness is a nice to have. No one cares if you run a sub 4min mile if you're going to fail API, not get a pin on time, etc.

Yea... I get it. And look where it has got us?

Mid Career officers getting out in droves complaining about the promotion system and quality of life even though theyre making a lot of money.