Wink's CCW Murder Board

[exhelodrvr]

Huey,
You come upon a situation where one cop is engaged in gunfire with a criminal. There is another individual with a weapon, could be a cop, could be a criminal. You draw a weapon, point it at the other individual, and then shoot if that individual aims his weapon at you. 50-50 you just shot a policeman; if that was a policeman you shot, the other policeman almost certainly shoots you, because his assumption would be that you are a criminal. There is also a chance that the known policeman shoots you when you come up on him with a weapon drawn.

So yes, I would delay with bringing my weapon out until knowing whether or not the second individual is a policeman.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Ok, I see your point. I do agree with you about the verbal response being your first item of business. I think it would be extremely difficult (mentally I mean) to approach a gunfight w/ weapon holstered AND allow an unknown person to point a weapon at you without retaliating...but there is also the point that YOU knowingly and willingly interjected yourself in an ongoing situation with absolutely no foreknowledge....

No matter how it shakes out, there are probably more bad outcomes to this scenario than good ones.

Edit: And just so you don't think I am changing my horse mid-race, my earlier "course of action" was very similar. 1. Assess the situation, 2. Verbally introduce yourself and attempt to control whatever portion of the situation you feel that you can (eg: the unknown person in the bushes), 3. Listen to what the cop tells you to do so that you are an asset, not a liability.

 

[A4sForever]

You can bump & grind & speculate on "what-if's" all day long w/ this stuff (and I'm NOT implying that the discussion isn't worthwhile ... ) ... but at some point in time, you must come to a bottom line if you are going to be a responsible CCW holder.

For me -- and this is what I've been taught and used to teach -- the use of deadly force is warranted ONLY to protect yourself or other "innocent" life from impending, unavoidable death or "grave bodily harm" ...

Basically, you can't point a firearm at another person and expect no blow-back unless these circumstances apply -- and it doesn't matter whether or not you agree; it's just the way it is:

1. The individual you are pointing a firearm at has the ability to harm you or another "innocent" ... this could also apply to disparity of force considerations as well ...

2. ... this individual has the "immediate opportunity" to cause your or another "innocent's" death or grave bodily harm ...

3. ... this individual is acting in such a manner that would cause a "REASONABLE and PRUDENT" person to assume that the individual you are pointing your firearm at has the power to place your or another's life in jeopardy.

Reasonable & prudent ... reasonable & prudent ... reasonable & prudent ... it means no overt, premeditated malicious intent on YOUR part.

 

[BigRed389]

You can bump & grind & speculate on "what-if's" all day long w/ this stuff (and I'm NOT implying that the discussion isn't worthwhile ... ) ... but at some point in time, you must come to a bottom line if you are going to be a responsible CCW holder.

For me -- and this is what I've been taught and used to teach -- the use of deadly force is warranted ONLY to protect yourself or other "innocent" life from impending, unavoidable death or "grave bodily harm" ...

Basically, you can't point a firearm at another person and expect no blow-back unless these circumstances apply -- and it doesn't matter whether or not you agree; it's just the way it is:

1. The individual you are pointing a firearm at has the ability to harm you or another "innocent" ... this could also apply to disparity of force considerations as well ...

2. ... this individual has the "immediate opportunity" to cause your or another "innocent's" death or grave bodily harm ...

3. ... this individual is acting in such a manner that would cause a "REASONABLE and PRUDENT" person to assume that the individual you are pointing your firearm at has the power to place your or another's life in jeopardy.

Reasonable & prudent ... reasonable & prudent ... reasonable & prudent ... it means no overt, premeditated malicious intent on YOUR part.

Or, short Version as taught by the Navy:

Opportunity
Intent
Capability

 

[HercDriver]

I'm not afraid to say that this one really stumped me.

I mean, what am I doing hanging around a trailer park in the first place?

 

[wink]

I'm not afraid to say that this one really stumped me.

I mean, what am I doing hanging around a trailer park in the first place?

Dragging a dollar bill around hoping to score a date?

 

[brownshoe]

Dragging a dollar bill around hoping to score a date?

They probably wouldn't be able to make change. (That did it! I'm goin' to hell.)

 

[JSF_Dreamer]

I would rather risk my life one time to help out someone who risks theirs to keep me and my family safe day in and day out if it means I might save them. If the bad guy shoots me, then so be it. If the cop turns and thinks I'm a bad guy too, then so be it. Hopefully I've taken a position in which the cop can't readily turn and shoot at me by mistake, thus giving me time to explain to him what happened.

Either way, if you're not willing (not the same as unable) to put your life on the line to save someone who puts their life on the line for you, your life isn't worth saving. Sorry if that offends. Just my opinion.

 

[exhelodrvr]

I would rather risk my life one time to help out someone who risks theirs to keep me and my family safe day in and day out if it means I might save them. If the bad guy shoots me, then so be it. If the cop turns and thinks I'm a bad guy too, then so be it. Hopefully I've taken a position in which the cop can't readily turn and shoot at me by mistake, thus giving me time to explain to him what happened.

Either way, if you're not willing (not the same as unable) to put your life on the line to save someone who puts their life on the line for you, your life isn't worth saving. Sorry if that offends. Just my opinion.

And how do you think that would make the policeman feel? A lot of times sticking your nose into something before you know the situation just makes things worse. Take the time to figure out what is going on before reacting.

 

[JSF_Dreamer]

If I take out a guy who is about to kill a cop, and the cop accidentally shoots me by mistake, well then yeah, he'll probably feel bad. But, if there is a guy about to shoot him and I do nothing and he kills the cop, well atleast he won't feel bad, right?

Personally, I'm smart enough to know where I should be. While I'm taking aim on the guy in the trees, I'm going to yell something to the cop. This will also most likely get the attention of said bad guy.