Why so expensive?

[statesman]

Nah he crashed it out of Sarasota Fl on CCX when he was running for Senate. Sold it for $1000, guy out here in Texas bought it, fixed it, and won the National Air Races in it. It still flies.

Unfortunate for me, as it would have likely been passed down to the only other aviator in the family.

 

[bert]

To the original question, the certification process is expensive and the demand is probably not sufficient to lure potential competitors into the market to bring the price down, so I don't think we will see prices drop anytime soon.

 

[vick]

There are some really nice and relatively affordable options if you look at what's available in the Experimental (non-certified) market. You can get a pretty remarkable EFIS from a variety of manufacturers for a fraction of what the Garmin (certified) panels cost. If you looks at who builds Vans RV kits and how they are equipping them you'll see a lot of folks from our background with the same appetite for high-performance platforms and systems.

 

[Swanee]

There are some really nice and relatively affordable options if you look at what's available in the Experimental (non-certified) market. You can get a pretty remarkable EFIS from a variety of manufacturers for a fraction of what the Garmin (certified) panels cost. If you looks at who builds Vans RV kits and how they are equipping them you'll see a lot of folks from our background with the same appetite for high-performance platforms and systems.

Also, another plus for experimental and home built aviation aside from the cost is that you don't have to deal with the FAA every time you want to change the battery in your airplane. I guess it's what Vick is getting at: You don't have to buy from the certificated list, and as long as you research and are a bit knowledgeable about what you are doing you can do some great flying.

 

[CumminsPilot]

I would just caution to anyone thinking about doing it: Be CAREFUL buying non-certified avionics equipment. There are some companies putting out some great stuff that isn't certified (the MVP-50 from Electronics Intl as an engine monitor was awesome before certification), and there are some companies putting out complete trash. Going with a known name and their known equipment will pay dividends in the end.

With that said, I'd never fly hard IFR or an approach to mins behind a Dynon anything. I would, however, trust my life to anything stamped Garmin...certified (G900X isn't certified) or not. Same with the Trutrak line of autopilots...better than ANYTHING certified available.

 

[Clux4]

I just bought my auto conversion engines last week and waiting for the plans to come in the mail. Should start building by first week in January. I am still looking at different options for avionics. After doing a few calculations, I decided not to go the certified aircraft route. Aviation is getting too expensive.
Now that a Chinese company bought out Continental, you would think that Continental engines will get cheaper but no.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I just bought my auto conversion engines last week...

I subscribe to Kitplanes, and am still just dreaming but when I do build I'm leaning towards an auto conversion. The only question I have is what fuel does it run off of? 100LL or Avgas?

As for the avionics piece, I hope to pick up a nice pair of GNS 430's used. Big step up from ALL of the flying I've ever done.

 

[ryan1234]

100LL = AVGAS

Check out www.zoche.de

Two stroke radial, diesel (jetA)...great performance

 

[phrogpilot73]

100LL = AVGAS

Yep. It's official - I'm a dumbass. I knew that, but typed it in any way. I meant do you use 100LL/AVGAS or regular gasoline? Have they been converted to take 100LL?

That diesel looks nice!

 

[yak52driver]

Yep. It's official - I'm a dumbass. I knew that, but typed it in any way. I meant do you use 100LL/AVGAS or regular gasoline? Have they been converted to take 100LL?

That diesel looks nice!

Some conversions use auto gas, others 100LL, it just depends on the conversion. One thing to keep in mind with a conversion is reliability. Lycomings and Continentals were designed to run all day at 75% power, auto engines were not. There have been problems with auto conversions having problems after a short period of time. Some folks swear by them, others are dead set against them.

 

[HuggyU2]

Check out www.zoche.de

Two stroke radial, diesel (jetA)...great performance

Ryan, do you know anyone that's flying this?

 

[CumminsPilot]

Some conversions use auto gas, others 100LL, it just depends on the conversion. One thing to keep in mind with a conversion is reliability. Lycomings and Continentals were designed to run all day at 75% power, auto engines were not. There have been problems with auto conversions having problems after a short period of time. Some folks swear by them, others are dead set against them.

^This.

Also, when it comes down to it, to get the same performance out of an auto engine, they end up costing nearly the same if not more than a Lycon or Continental. Engine, gear box, ECU's, specialty engine mount, etc...

Put me in the "dead set against" group.

 

[Clux4]

I subscribe to Kitplanes, and am still just dreaming but when I do build I'm leaning towards an auto conversion. The only question I have is what fuel does it run off of? 100LL or Avgas?

As for the avionics piece, I hope to pick up a nice pair of GNS 430's used. Big step up from ALL of the flying I've ever done.

I bought a Revmaster Engine which is suppose to be a VW Engine but truth be told, there hardly anything left on that engine that is VW. I hate to go into the LyComing / Continental debate on here because it ends up being a Chevy/Ford arguement in my opinion. Aircraft engines fails as much as auto-engines but auto-engines get alot of bad press. Most of the guys that attempt auto-conversions are not knowledgeable about simple things such as shock cooling. So definitely, they are bound to fail because they don't have the knowledge. Most of the local EAA guys hanging out at the field have decent knowledge about stuff like this. Rather than spending my time finding out/tinkering with a conversion, I decided to go with a proven auto-conversion. If you thinking of an auto-conversion, I would suggest a Corvair. I was actually going for a Corvair until I got a deal on a Revmaster I could not pass up. There is also a great following for Corvair engines. Check out www.flycorvair.com. Most conversions have provision for Avgas or Gasoline.

It is just unbelievable the amount of user friendly NAVAID applications are out there. The 430's are great but I am sure you will want something newer by the time you are done with your project. Though the non-certified are not suitable for IFR flight, they seem to offer a lot more for cheap.

 

[vick]

I'd never fly hard IFR or an approach to mins behind a Dynon anything.

Just curious, what's the problem with Dynon? I thought they had a pretty good reputation and their new SkyView is getting great feedback. I was thinking a SkyView with a GNS 430W providing nav/com would be a sweet set up.

Break Break

Swanee nailed it...after owning two certificated aircraft I'm seriously considering jumping into the experimental realm. You still have to deal with the FAA, after all they'll still have to verify that whatever you build is airworthy, but not having to deal with STCs alone would make it more enjoyable.

 

[CumminsPilot]

Just curious, what's the problem with Dynon? I thought they had a pretty good reputation and their new SkyView is getting great feedback. I was thinking a SkyView with a GNS 430W providing nav/com would be a sweet set up.

Break Break

Swanee nailed it...after owning two certificated aircraft I'm seriously considering jumping into the experimental realm. You still have to deal with the FAA, after all they'll still have to verify that whatever you build is airworthy, but not having to deal with STCs alone would make it more enjoyable.

Could just be their early stuff, could just have been their piss-poor customer service then too...could just be multiple customers having total failures of their equipment in-flight. It's just a personal preference, but I'd never trust my life to Dynon (last time I dealt with them was 2007). I'd spend whatever it costs me to put Garmin stuff in my panel. The second option would be Chelton, but they're a little less user friendly. I also know of some pretty serious Chelton failures (all 3 screens went blank in hard-IMC at night...guy was a retired A6 NFO and a good pilot though, and got her on deck), but the company replaced everything with no questions asked.

Once you own an experimental, you'll never go back. Performance/dollar can not be touched on the certified side, whether we're talking TAS or glass in the cockpit.