In a year or so, in RI Sims, I want you to read this again and then kick yourself in the nuts.
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Why so expensive?
- Thread starter statesman
- Start date
In a year or so, in RI Sims, I want you to read this again and then kick yourself in the nuts.
ryan1234
Well-Known Member
RNAV Approaches are great for airports that don't have a VOR approach. Not to metion that filing, if just have a VOR, can take you hours out of the way, versus saying "direct to xxxxx". Helps with the fuel bill as well. Most of the glass now has TAWS - a helpful tool in the weather.
Some of the price consideration of glass is their certification of RNAV, WAAS, etc - the versatility that WAAS adds to your GA approaches is stunning. IMHO - Garmin makes a great product, but they're over priced. The handheld stuff is without certification, but on par for accuracy - The 696 now has geo-referenced approach plates.... pretty amazing stuff!
I worded my post poorly and didn't correct it well enough when I went back. My snobishness isn't about older planes so much as C-172's. I just don't like flying them. They're sluggish and it's hard to see forward out of them (similar problem w/ PA-xx aircraft). Just one man's preference, I know.
As for the age-ed aircraft...yeah, better hourly rates and having steam gauges isn't that bad. I don't even like turning on the 696 we fly with in the helo if I can help it just so I can continue practicing VNAV skills. The catch w/ OWNING a lot of older aircraft is that there's always something breaking. Not because of shoddy work, just because it's old. I'm talking seats/seat covers, vinyl, carpet, various electronics, non-structural metal, etc. It's just finding that balance, I guess.
One thing Garmin will do is stand behind their expensive product. I had a car GPS lose it's audio on me. Garmin had me ship it to them and they couldn't find anything wrong. They shipped me back a new one, updated w/ a new database, all free of charge.
In Haiti, our only real navigation source in one of our aircraft was a 695. We could never get the integrated GPS to find itself. About 2 weeks into the fun, the 695 died (actually, the backlight died). When we got back, I called Garmin and I had a RMA within minutes. I think we got back the replacement in about a week and a half, complete w/ an updated database as well as all our waypoints saved (in case we ever needed to go back to LZ FIREBIRD I guess).
I've definitely been impressed w/ their product and service.
Would have been nice if the CNS/ATM upgrade in the P3 incorporated WAAS also. I guess it wasn't worth the extra $$ and certification, especially since we have ILS already. For us, stuck with LNAV MDA mins, but heck, not complaining, it is a great system for those of us that know how to use it.
The Garmin's would've been nice to have down there for sure, we had a flight similar where our gps wouldn't acquire so we had to pull out one of the crewman's personal handhelds to find some completely random LZ waaaay up north. Plus, with so much crap destroyed it was damn near impossible to nav off the ground.
Except there's no DPs, STARs, or overlay approaches any more. I complain about that every time I fly the damn thing!
Yeah there are, just fly to PAX river, they have all the approaches loaded for that field!
Slowly they are getting reincorporated. Flying in south florida the other day, we had quite a few of the stars and DP available surprisingly enough.
On the same note as how aviation is hugely over expensive now: my father and I were recently going through a bunch of my recently deceased grandfather's paperwork (he kept everything) and we found some old flight receipts fromw hen he was learned how to fly in the 50s. in 1959 it cost $8 an hour to rent a 150 wet. Instruction was $2 per half hour. If you account for inflation, that does not equate to the 140 bucks an hour for a wet 152, and the 40 to 60 bucks an hour for instruction. (Median household income back then was 5k a year, now it's about 45k a year. so a 9x difference. If flight costs inflated the same way we would be paying 72 bucks an hour wet and 18 bucks an hour for instruction. half as much as you are paying now)
I agree with MB, aviation used to be affordable for pretty much anyone with a job. Now that the lawyers have gotten involved it has ruined everything. Hell, you can't find a sailplane manufacturer in the USA anymore because of it. If you want to buy a performance sailplane you (or one made in the last 30 years) you have to buy one from companies in Sweden or Germany or France or South Africa or New Zealand...
I agree with MB, aviation used to be affordable for pretty much anyone with a job. Now that the lawyers have gotten involved it has ruined everything. Hell, you can't find a sailplane manufacturer in the USA anymore because of it. If you want to buy a performance sailplane you (or one made in the last 30 years) you have to buy one from companies in Sweden or Germany or France or South Africa or New Zealand...
Agreed. It didn't help that we had NO connectivity, either. We would have to go to the carrier almost every day to get the airplan and when TIGER would tell us to go to a "new" LZ, we'd have to say we hadn't received the updated info and wait for a lat and long to get passed. And as you know, there was PLENTY of dead air on that freq to make that easy...
A little different situation but on the same note...
My grandfather bought a surplus P-51D when they went on sale. Paid a few thousand dollars for it. When you adjust it for inflation not NEAR the several million you have to pay these days. Now granted scarcity and no new manufactures of P-51s are definitely driving up the cost, but I sincerely doubt that if P-51s were being manufactured today that you could get them for just over half a million dollars.
According to Wikipedia the unit cost was about $51,000 in 1945 (a little over $600,000 adjusted for inflation). If a 172 costs $400,000 new I doubt you would see a P-51D with a Packard Merlin in it for any less than $900,000 to a Mil.
Seems aviation and healthcare are two places where advancements in technology didn't help the cost any.
Actually, not true:
http://www.windward-performance.com/
And the Perlan Project (and Steve Fossett) think Greg's a pretty good aerodynamicist too.
Yeah, I've heard of the sparrowhawk, and Perlan is back on track after the death of Fosset. (Some guy tried to break his and Einer Enevoldson's record out in Hawaii, but crashed and was killed in the attempt). It's nice to see a new company, but we'll see if he can compete. The lawyers drove the Schweizer brothers out of building new airplanes (by that I mean new sailplanes, Sikorsky owns them now) and they were the largest company in the USA, (and a heavy hitter in the world market). They will rebuild a 2-33 for you, but it will cost you 25 grand. Or you can buy a Grob 103a for a little more money and have a much better airplane.
Does anyone in the family still have it?????