USN What is the difference between a Naval Aircrewman and Spec Ops AIRR?

[Brett327]

Why would I spend over 100 grand for a degree that is a piece of paper that majority of the time doesn't get you anywhere.

I don't think you've properly thought this through. If your goal is a comfortable retirement, going to college before you join the military as an officer will roughly double what you'd get in retirement after serving 20 years. The cost of a 4 year degree at a state school in Georgia is nowhere near $100K. That piece of paper will earn you multiple millions of dollars more over your lifetime.

 

[Igloojam]

Not trying to sound like an asshole but my ultimate goal is to work my ass off until I reach the age of about 55-60 years old and retire with a hell of a good retirement plan. I want to do 20 years in the military and get out and then 15-20 years in the police or fire department so I can have 2 retirement plans. Then with those 2 retirement plans I want to move to Maui and just live on the island. Thats my ultimate goal. Its not that I do not want to put in the work per say but its more along the idea of making sure what I am getting into will suit my athletic ability so I can be the best I can be so I do not let my "Crew" down if that makes sense. Why would I spend over 100 grand for a degree that is a piece of paper that majority of the time doesn't get you anywhere. College is not what it used to be just saying. Would love to go to college and get a physical therapy degree or do something in sports medicine but I don't believe the cost of the degree is worth the risk personally. Anyways thanks for replying brother

This is the most naive thing I have ever read...

With all due respect... Do you know what a good retirement plan is? Do you have the slightest concept of how retirement funds/pensions work? How does the volatility of the federal budget fare against your expected "retirement" outcome? What about future children? Wife? What will her job be? Her spending habits? Your spending habits? How does your retirement work if said federal spending budgets cut your pension? Will you have a back up retirement fund? Will you make sure its diversified enough to grow faster than inflation? Will you make sure that said retirement fund portfolio is tax-advantaged and invested in low-expense ratio funds?

People spend they're entire college career studying the above shit, so no... I know for a fact you have no clue about any of that...

tl;dr... You have no idea of three things, 1)personal finance 2)where you'll be in 20+ years 3)if said "pensions" will still be available and/or enough...

Continuing... You sound exactly like a lot of young Marines I served with... "I wanna do career, then be a cop sarge"-types... Don't get me wrong... Its great to think about the future. It's awesome you want to pursue public service. Ultimate respect to first responders. But to sit back and not pursue higher education is asinine, especially when it is free (gi bill, hazelwood, TA, mcep, etc)... Let me 'xplain why...

Lets say you join... hooyah! get some.. you're in for 8 years... time to re-up... well due to unforseen reasons ie. budget cuts, prior njp, wife, kids, whatever it may be... you're forced to get out... Now you only have 8 years ad enlisted... boom back to real world... Now its time to be a civilian... Don't get me wrong, your military experience was honorable... but you're not the only person with them, and unless you have a very transferable skill from the military, you're going to be hard pressed to find a job doing what you did in the military. HOWEVER, the most valuable asset you have is the experience. The experience of being part of a team, having a mission, peer leadership, communication, being responsible... <--- This is what makes military experience most valuable... but you're missing one other critical part... Education.

Someone wise once told me.... "No matter what happens in your life... No one will ever be able to take away your experience and education."... let that sink in.

On Education....
1) Degrees do not cost 100k
2)You get out of a degree to which you put in... So don't pick a cheesedick degree. Feel the struggle. Challenge yourself. There is a reason why doctors and engineers get paid a lot.
3) Degrees can provide opportunities experiences can't... Perfect example... Being a Navy Pilot! If I leave the military, I can be a civilian pilot, or a geologist(my degree). Thats two doors for fair income.
4) Many career ladders require a degree... Do you think the senior most enlisted of the Navy don't have degrees? Wrong... They do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Stevens... He wouldn't have got to the position he's at without said "100k worthless degree"... Oh and he was an Aviation Warfare Specialist as well...

With regards to your comment, "degree that is a piece of paper that majority of the time doesn't get you anywhere"... You are wrong. Dead wrong... People who go nowhere are people with bad attitudes and decide to blame their degree. You're on a forum for aviator-types... Majority are officers, who know more and have seen more than you may ever will... They all have degrees(officers), and those degrees along with good attitudes and experience have propelled them. For the record... I was an enlisted grunt who has a degree... I now get to be a pilot. I'd say my degree is getting me somewhere.

/rant

 

[italianlifter]

As a "current" AWF Aircrew "man," I'd like to address a couple concerns with your thoughts on being a Naval Aircrewman. You state you don't think you "have the mental capacity" to complete Rescue Swimmer school. Perhaps you are not familiar with the training pipeline for a "dry" Aircrewman. All Aircrew start out their training at Naval Aircrewman Candidate School, which is about five weeks. At this school, you will be required to be able to swim a mile in a flight suit and boots in addition to other water survival tests. The school is centered around physical fitness-both in and out of the water. IF you finish this school, you are NOT a Naval Aircrewman. You will have to complete an academically centered "A" school depending on your rate, AWF, AWO, AWS, etc (2-6 months). IF you finish this school, you will receive orders to a Fleet Replacement Squadron for the aircraft you are assigned to. This training will be 6-12 months depending on the platform consisting of a combination of classroom instruction and flight/sim events. IF you complete this training, you will generally receive orders to SERE school in route to your first operational squadron; however, you will not yet be a designated Naval Aircrewman. You will have generally have from 12-18 months to fully qualify in your job at which point you will finally be designated a Naval Aircrewman (after you complete the PQS for the warfare device). That being said, having the "mental capacity" to stay engaged for the first three years of your Naval career will determine whether or not you MAY be cut out for the job. So when you say "I don't think I can deal with all that training," and "I wanna be an Aircrewman but just don't feel like going through all that extensive training...," red flags go up all over the place-it doesn't matter the job you are referring to. Even if you decide to just enlist in the Navy in a non-special program rate, you will be training constantly throughout your career.

On another subject, let me ask you a question. Did you walk into the fire department off the street and start calling the veterans "brother" and using terms like, "I don't mean to sound like an a-hole but xyz?" I doubt it. Everyone chiming in to answer your questions has "been there, done that" and are trying to get you on the right page in your decision making process. When someone who is likely a prior Rescue Swimmer and/or current Naval Officer tells you rescue swimmers are not SPECWAR, they may know what they are talking about (even more than the RECRUITING website you referenced). Humility, even in the face of harsh correction, will serve you well.

Finally, I want you to know that you are likely selling yourself short. At 22, you are not old. When placed in a precarious situation, we are often able to accomplish things we never thought possible. Rescue swimmer school does not look for reasons to kick people out. Conversely, the instructor's job is to bring out people's strengths mentally and physically. They don't hold your hand, but the course progresses at a pace reasonably obtainable by the majority of candidates. The Navy has billets that need to be filled; effective training programs keep our special programs communities manned. The choice is yours; either man up and join an exclusive community with an "all in" mindset, or regret not trying (in 10-15 years).

No sir I did not just walk off the street and into the fire department calling everyone my brother. For the first 2 months I walked into work cleaning the station in the morning and at night, checking off the engines, buying groceries for the crew, being the last one to make myself a plate and the first one to finish eating and start the dishes. Shaking everyones hand every morning introducing myself until they would remember my name. The only words I said was No sir, No mame, Yes sir and Yes mame. Eventually they made me apart of there family. I never said I did not believe anyone on this forum from the things they are telling me Sir. If anything I have been greatly appreciative of everyone on the forum giving me there insight.

You are absolutely right when you say I am selling myself short cause come to think of it I am and Im changing that now. Well I am was going to join and want t0 join until I read from a previous comment that the militaries retirement plan might not be all its cut up to be. I have to do more research on that before I join.

Again thank you for your insight sir.

 

[italianlifter]

This is the most naive thing I have ever read...

With all due respect... Do you know what a good retirement plan is? Do you have the slightest concept of how retirement funds/pensions work? How does the volatility of the federal budget fare against your expected "retirement" outcome? What about future children? Wife? What will her job be? Her spending habits? Your spending habits? How does your retirement work if said federal spending budgets cut your pension? Will you have a back up retirement fund? Will you make sure its diversified enough to grow faster than inflation? Will you make sure that said retirement fund portfolio is tax-advantaged and invested in low-expense ratio funds?

People spend they're entire college career studying the above shit, so no... I know for a fact you have no clue about any of that...

tl;dr... You have no idea of three things, 1)personal finance 2)where you'll be in 20+ years 3)if said "pensions" will still be available and/or enough...

Continuing... You sound exactly like a lot of young Marines I served with... "I wanna do career, then be a cop sarge"-types... Don't get me wrong... Its great to think about the future. It's awesome you want to pursue public service. Ultimate respect to first responders. But to sit back and not pursue higher education is asinine, especially when it is free (gi bill, hazelwood, TA, mcep, etc)... Let me 'xplain why...

Lets say you join... hooyah! get some.. you're in for 8 years... time to re-up... well due to unforseen reasons ie. budget cuts, prior njp, wife, kids, whatever it may be... you're forced to get out... Now you only have 8 years ad enlisted... boom back to real world... Now its time to be a civilian... Don't get me wrong, your military experience was honorable... but you're not the only person with them, and unless you have a very transferable skill from the military, you're going to be hard pressed to find a job doing what you did in the military. HOWEVER, the most valuable asset you have is the experience. The experience of being part of a team, having a mission, peer leadership, communication, being responsible... <--- This is what makes military experience most valuable... but you're missing one other critical part... Education.

Someone wise once told me.... "No matter what happens in your life... No one will ever be able to take away your experience and education."... let that sink in.

On Education....
1) Degrees do not cost 100k
2)You get out of a degree to which you put in... So don't pick a cheesedick degree. Feel the struggle. Challenge yourself. There is a reason why doctors and engineers get paid a lot.
3) Degrees can provide opportunities experiences can't... Perfect example... Being a Navy Pilot! If I leave the military, I can be a civilian pilot, or a geologist(my degree). Thats two doors for fair income.
4) Many career ladders require a degree... Do you think the senior most enlisted of the Navy don't have degrees? Wrong... They do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Stevens... He wouldn't have got to the position he's at without said "100k worthless degree"... Oh and he was an Aviation Warfare Specialist as well...

With regards to your comment, "degree that is a piece of paper that majority of the time doesn't get you anywhere"... You are wrong. Dead wrong... People who go nowhere are people with bad attitudes and decide to blame their degree. You're on a forum for aviator-types... Majority are officers, who know more and have seen more than you may ever will... They all have degrees(officers), and those degrees along with good attitudes and experience have propelled them. For the record... I was an enlisted grunt who has a degree... I now get to be a pilot. I'd say my degree is getting me somewhere.

/rant

Sir would you advise getting a degree first and then joining or joining and working on your degree while serving? I apologize if what I said came off the wrong way cause that was not my intention.

 

[robav8r]

Must . . . . not . . . . comment . . . . . on . . . . . grammar . . . . . and . . . . . spelling . . . . . . . sorry, inside voice

 

[Brett327]

until I read from a previous comment that the militaries retirement plan might not be all its cut up to be

Please explain this statement. What did you think a military retirement gave you in monetary terms? How is it "not all it's cut up to be?" What have you learned here that suddenly changed your mind?

 

[italianlifter]

Please explain this statement. What did you think a military retirement gave you in monetary terms? How is it "not all it's cut up to be?" What have you learned here that suddenly changed your mind?

Sorry misspelling. Typed to quick while not looking at the computer. I just heard from a previous comment if i remember right it was on the third page that the military is doing away from the old retirement and many are not sure about the new retirement plan.

 

[Brett327]

Have you run any numbers to quantify anything you're hearing?

 

[Igloojam]

Sir would you advise getting a degree first and then joining or joining and working on your degree while serving? I apologize if what I said came off the wrong way cause that was not my intention.

Absolutely get a degree... When you get it makes no matter. If you get it before, you can go straight to being an officer... No enlisted bullshit. If you get it during, you can use Tuition assistance, looks good as f**k for your promotions, and you can bank your GI bill, but can be difficult.

The better question to ask is what are you capable of doing? Can you do school while having a 6AM to 6PM job? Deployments? Etc?... I always recommend to do school before joining... Focus only on school. Learn everything you can. Live in the library and your professors offices. If you do it on active duty you could potentially get swamped, unfocused, and blame the military for your failure. Also doing it before joining lets you mature. You get caught underage drinking on AD... You get an NJP... You get an NJP... good luck reenlisting and good luck commissioning(i think?).

Get a degree... find the time. Also... Saying you don't have the money is bullshit. If you're single with no kids, then you're not broke. I used federal loans and grants for my degree... No I'm not starving in debt, and after 10 years cumulative service in the military, they'll be completely forgiven and done with.

Also... Go to a reputable public university with a strong alumi program if possible... These schools have an awesome tradition that will suck you in and you will meet people that could potentially help you out one day. Also... College Football is life.

Gig 'Em
Igloo

 

[707guy]

So don't pick a cheesedick degree.

Best college advise I've heard in a long time...

 

[Igloojam]

Best college advise I've heard in a long time...

Yes haha... Degrees like Art History, Creative Studies, and Agricultural Leadership typically don't fare well... BUT AGAIN.... A DEGREE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT... I know lots of pilots with Ag Leadership degrees... Just a means to end...

No offense to anyone here if thats your degree...

 

[nittany03]

If there's any risk to anything in life, it's definitely not worth trying. Yay, Millennials. (awaiting Nittany's wrath)

 

[Pags]

Ah, @nittany03 retorted with a meme.

how very.......wait for it......millennial of you.

 

[zippy]

Yes haha... Degrees like Art History, Creative Studies, and Agricultural Leadership typically don't fare well... BUT AGAIN.... A DEGREE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT... I know lots of pilots with Ag Leadership degrees... Just a means to end...

No offense to anyone here if thats your degree...

I know Hornet pilots and WSOs with Theater and Music degrees, a sub Nuc with a religious study degree etc. Fortunately for the military, a degree is just a check in the box and is one part of the total package deal.

Take courses that interest you so you excel at them. Most people don't end up working in their degree field anyways. You can always get an advanced degree down the road if you really feel so inclined or it's needed for a career you want into.

 

[Igloojam]

Take courses that interest you so you excel at them.

This really is the truth. Just remember though... A degree is what YOU make of it. Emphasis on the "you", because you are ultimately in control of your fate. @italianlifter