What do VR reserve pilots do during "off time"

[Gatordev]

I can say I was pleasantly surprised by the Iron Works' positive reaction to my year mobilization. It was more or less as described above. "Cool. Let us know what you need, we'll keep your chair warm for you." Differential pay and minimum of paperwork.

I've heard generally that's the case with the defense giants. They're big companies and can afford Reservists going off and doing their thing. It's a different case if you're one of 50 employees at Jim's Pools and Patios.


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When we went to Haiti, we had a pilot on det that had been recently hired by GE (same guy I mentioned above). He was supposed to be underway for 4 days and then head back to work. Obviously that didn't work out and between him emailing his boss and our XO calling his boss, they said something similar to the above. "No, we understand. Go do what you need to do and we understand you don't know when you'll be back. We'll probably ask you to write a PAO article for the company about how you served the country while also working in the Television Programming and Microwave Ovens Division."

 

[MasterBates]

And then you have other companies, who even though they are big, freak out about drilling, and try to make guys burn PTO and vacation. Couple idjits in hot water in a sister division for canning a Army guard pilot.

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[Jim123]

Interesting. That's very different than the Navy side, at least for HELOWINGRES and TRACOM (at least what I saw at the TRACOM).

That's about right for (Navy) TRACOM- year-to-year. It's usually a question of where the money is being sprayed, which is usually whichever pipeline and/or phase needs it (for example- if one area is getting backed up with students, which tends to happen from time to time) although sometimes where it can be used (for example- if an area needs it but can't use it in the near term due to limited aircraft availability, then spend the money elsewhere to help another area get ahead). MCRIP (Marine reserve IPs) is a little different; they've typically had less money for a few years, and unfortunately they shrank over this past summer and had to cut a lot of guys.


@smoke screen- I'd say the training command reservists have similar work schedules to the VR reservists in that they are expected to put in 100 workdays/year, and these are often done in blocks of a few days straight to a few weeks to (occasionally) several months. I can't comment on whether TRACOM or VR is more flexible- I'd bet that varies slightly across all of the squadrons, etc.

A big way for TRACOM reservists to get attention is to let currency and quals drop (occasionally is OK as long as there is a good reason or the guy is otherwise a good producer), although that usually isn't a problem simple because most folks come in and fly quite frequently. As for non-flying "real" jobs, you name it- government jobs and/or contractors, office jobs (ie. accounting, engineering, middle management), small business... Those who also fly for their "real" jobs vary too- airlines, commuters, charters, commercial, oil rigs, and government contract.

 

[Gatordev]

That's about right for (Navy) TRACOM- year-to-year. It's usually a question of where the money is being sprayed, which is usually whichever pipeline and/or phase needs it (for example- if one area is getting backed up with students, which tends to happen from time to time) although sometimes where it can be used (for example- if an area needs it but can't use it in the near term due to limited aircraft availability, then spend the money elsewhere to help another area get ahead). MCRIP (Marine reserve IPs) is a little different; they've typically had less money for a few years, and unfortunately they shrank over this past summer and had to cut a lot of guys.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd guess that allocation within a Wing or Wings is due, in part, because you have an OSO (or OIC...I'm old school) that helps manage that with the RDHs and PM, no? Something HELOWINGRES may or may not have (officially or otherwise).

The Marines have had less money? Impossible. I never would have guessed that. I have a feeling the Navy guys will feel the pain this year, at least on the operational side.

 

[phrogpilot73]

...unfortunately they shrank over this past summer and had to cut a lot of guys.

There was more afoot then simply money on that one. They shrank because a message came out from 4th MAW with guidance about MCRIP being fully manned (they were at 100% or a little over) and the SMCR squadrons being horribly undermanned (every squadron was sitting at ~45% manning). Wing CG basically said that a pilot could do MCRIP for no more than 3 consecutive years, with the idea that it would grow the number of pilots in the SMCR squadrons. Don't know where all the MCRIPs are going, but we only got one guy that was a former MCRIP.

The Marines have had less money? Impossible. I never would have guessed that.

Classic, because it's always been true...

 

[Uncle Fester]

There's a lot of talk in the NavRes about making it easier to jump back and forth between AD and Reserves, i.e., AC guy going Reserves for a few years to get his Art History degree or take care of an ailing relative, or RC guy filling an Active billet for a tour when his civilian job gets cut. Hopefully the idea is something O's will be able to take adavantage of and not strictly restricted to the Other Ranks.

I have a feeling that Reserve Aviation is rapidly sliding toward exctinction. It's a combination of bad ideas, and ideas that sounded good to the Active guys making them. Foremost is moving ResRons away from places with airline hubs (Atlanta and DC, for example) to wherever the rest of the aircraft type is located, in the name of consolidation. Great if you're an Active cat, but a Reservist is not going to get himself to SeaTac and then drive the 2+ hours to NASWI just to get out a double.

VAW-77 goes away next year, and that will pretty much be the end of VAW/VRC Reserves, less the tattered remnant of us at the SAU. Bad part of that is you're losing a lot of very experienced pilots and controllers, the exact sort of dudes you want teaching the new guys how it's done, and the guys you'd want on hand if a no-shit war went off. I'm sure VAW isn't the only community thus impacted.

 

[MasterBates]

Yep.. SAU having to absorb a lot of 77 "refugees" was part of my "look elsewhere than Hampton Roads" logic. Current pilot, live 4 miles from NOB, "no room at the inn with 77 closing down" (and a lot of guys pre-emptively going to the SAU before the music stops).

 

[FlyBoyd]

@smoke screen- I'd say the training command reservists have similar work schedules to the VR reservists in that they are expected to put in 100 workdays/year, and these are often done in blocks of a few days straight to a few weeks to (occasionally) several months....

A little high...

By instruction, CNATRA SELRES do a minimum of 60 days (48 IDTs, 48 AFTPs and 12 days AT). Most guys do a few more days AT and up to 12 more days with AFTPs which max out at 72.

 

[scoolbubba]

English, please? The acronyms are killing me trying to keep up with this thread.

 

[Gatordev]

English, please? The acronyms are killing me trying to keep up with this thread.

I lived around the acronyms for 9 months (plus hearing them while at the VTs) and I didn't really understand them until I had to manage the acronyms (and their associated money) as an admin O. Here's a simple breakdown, but ask away for elaboration...

You have two major pots of money as a SELRES: Entitlement and Additionals.

ENTITLEMENT is the "one weekend a month, two weeks a year," or in more confusing terms, 48 IDTs (drills, each 4 hours) and 12-17 days (sometimes more) of AT (active duty time). All of this is guaranteed by USC TITLE 10.

ADDITIONALS are just that, additional monies that a unit may or may not have available. They include AFTPs (for pilots 72 max allowed), ATPs (for ground people, 36 max allowed) and RMPs (up to 12 a year allowed). These are also all drills (4 hour blocks). There's also something called ADT, which is active duty time (you're on orders earning a "normal" paycheck).

Additionals are dependent on the unit's allocated budget and where you are in the FY (think TAD budget...kind of). Just because you're authorized 72 AFTPs doesn't mean you'll get them or are entitled to them. Oh, and a flight is 2 drills. The AFTPs are there for aircrew to get their 100 hour mins (or 40 for AWs), which can be hard for a "conventional" SELRES.

There's other pots of money (ADSW, Mobilization, Schools ADT, etc), but those are active-duty orders and applied for, dependent on big Navy Reserve budget.

 

[scoolbubba]

Thanks, I think I'm catching back up. By all means, continue the thread...this may be something that applies to me sooner or later!

 

[MasterBates]

I lived around the acronyms for 9 months (plus hearing them while at the VTs) and I didn't really understand them until I had to manage the acronyms (and their associated money) as an admin O. Here's a simple breakdown, but ask away for elaboration...

You have two major pots of money as a SELRES: Entitlement and Additionals.

ENTITLEMENT is the "one weekend a month, two weeks a year," or in more confusing terms, 48 IDTs (drills, each 4 hours) and 12-17 days (sometimes more) of AT (active duty time). All of this is guaranteed by USC TITLE 10.

ADDITIONALS are just that, additional monies that a unit may or may not have available. They include AFTPs (for pilots 72 max allowed), ATPs (for ground people, 36 max allowed) and RMPs (up to 12 a year allowed). These are also all drills (4 hour blocks). There's also something called ADT, which is active duty time (you're on orders earning a "normal" paycheck).

Additionals are dependent on the unit's allocated budget and where you are in the FY (think TAD budget...kind of). Just because you're authorized 72 AFTPs doesn't mean you'll get them or are entitled to them. Oh, and a flight is 2 drills. The AFTPs are there for aircrew to get their 100 hour mins (or 40 for AWs), which can be hard for a "conventional" SELRES.

There's other pots of money (ADSW, Mobilization, Schools ADT, etc), but those are active-duty orders and applied for, dependent on big Navy Reserve budget.

Best one-post explanation I have seen.

 

[phrogpilot73]

And to further explain the acronym soup for reserves (since Gator didn't spell out what each one was):

AFTP: Additional Flight Training Period. Again, as he said - flyers only. You have to be on the flight schedule or have a NAVFLIR in the system (technically) to be eligible for the payment.
ATP: Additional Training Period. Not just for ground people - flyers can take it if they're doing work around the squadron and they're NOT on the flight schedule.

For both AFTPs and ATPs, you can take two per day - but you CAN'T mix the two. So on a day that you're flying and doing work for the squadron, you'll log two AFTPs.

RMP: Reserve Management Period. Flyers and non-flyers, allows for a reservist to be paid when he's not at his unit, but he's doing work for his unit. You can take one per day.

ADSW: Active Duty Special Work. Period of active duty where you're on orders but not mobilized or on TAD/going to school.
ADOS: Active Duty Operational Support. Marine Corps version of ADSW.

 

[Gatordev]

ATP: Additional Training Period. Not just for ground people - flyers can take it if they're doing work around the squadron and they're NOT on the flight schedule.

I would love for someone in authority to come forward and say that this is legit. The Navy instruction isn't super-clear, but gives lots of indications that you're not supposed to do this, but it doesn't specifically say you can't.

AFTPs cannot be used in addition to the ATPs.

then...

For those other than aircrew members, the
combination of ATPs and RMPs shall not exceed 72 in each FY for
each person. For aircrew members, the combination of AFTPs and
RMPs shall not exceed 84 per FY.

but doesn't say anything about AFTPs and ATPs
Finally,

ATP (nonaircrew IDT periods). Two ATPs are
authorized per day for a minimum of eight hours training in
formal or informal OJT, which contributes to unit or individual
mobilization readiness as follows:
blah, blah, blah...

My last command had a policy (nothing written) that we wouldn't mix and match. Where I'm at now, I've told my CO that it doesn't seem completely kosher to do it, so it's best not to just to be safe and he's cool with that (he's the one that burns the RMPs up anyway).

But again, I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just my comfort level (and lack of need, since it's all the same money, anway). I just wish they'd say so one way or the other.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I would love for someone in authority to come forward and say that this is legit. The Navy instruction isn't super-clear, but gives lots of indications that you're not supposed to do this, but it doesn't specifically say you can't.

Our instruction (the MCRAMM) doesn't say aircrew can't do an ATP, it gets into the verbage about what an ATP is supposed to be used for. For AFTPs, it specifically calls out that it is intended for flying and flying only. As for combining the two, the MCRAAM sort of allows for it* - but 4th MAW has said no. You're either there to support the flight schedule, or you're there to support something else.

I just wish they'd say so one way or the other.

I can understand your frustration there, I think for a lot of our new reservists and AR guys - navigating the rules of what can and can't be done is the biggest challenge...

Oh, and it appears that the definition of RMP has changed (at least in our manual), it is now a Readiness Management Period vice Reserve Management Period...

*As for sort of allowing for it, in the AFTP section they mention that they can be combined with Extra Drill Periods or unit IDTs, but in the ATP section they state that "ATPs may not be used in addition to or as a substitute for additional flight training periods (AFTPs)" I think it's this blurb that brought 4th MAW to their determination...