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War in Israel
- Thread starter Mirage
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These conflicts are nowhere near the same. You have a child-like understanding of the world.
The situation is both complex and nuanced. Most people, most politicians and certainly most activists don’t operate in that world… some out of ignorance and some deliberately. It’s difficult to have a meaningful discussion about it when one faction’s watchword is “permanent ceasefire now,” while another will claim that any criticism equals antisemitism. Tough to move the ball forward under these circumstances, as evidenced by this thread.
I don’t pretend to have any great answers, but I hope the statesmen working behind the scenes are addressing some of these broader issues. At some point, the Palestinians are going to have to have something akin to a state, with genuine sovereignty and self determination, and without Israel’s boot on its neck or the encroachment of settlements. That would be a good start. Likewise, those who have perpetrated violence/terrorism must be held accountable.
I don’t pretend to have any great answers, but I hope the statesmen working behind the scenes are addressing some of these broader issues. At some point, the Palestinians are going to have to have something akin to a state, with genuine sovereignty and self determination, and without Israel’s boot on its neck or the encroachment of settlements. That would be a good start. Likewise, those who have perpetrated violence/terrorism must be held accountable.
They’re not even in the same ballpark. The pretext of both conflicts and terrain in which they are fought are completely different. It doesn’t make civilian casualties less tragic, but there is a level of distinction between those conflicts. I don’t know what level of mental gymnastics you’re going through to compare sending cruise missiles at a funeral service with destroying an urban building with a combatant in it.
My point has nothing to do with why the conflicts are fought, but how they're fought. Israel is leveling 5 story apartment complexes full of civilians to kill 1 room of terrorists. If Russia did that everyone here would be crying war crime. What sort of mental gymnastics does it take to deny that?
None.
But Israel isn't Russia.
That doesn't make it right, just pointing out the obvious.
If one wanted to lay the plurality of blame at the feet of one person for October 7th, I don't think one doesn't have to go much further than Netanyahu. As I mentioned before he has endured in Israeli politics much longer than any of his contemporaries and his fixation on maintaining power appears to have made actual governance a secondary priority to him and his allies for much of the time.
The status quo of a frozen peace process, mainly the the 'two-state solution' long advocated for by the US, EU and others, coupled with the continued rule of Gaza by Hamas and Hezbollah in Lebanon have been advantageous to him in giving him an enemy to point at as an ever-present threat to Israel and providing cover for some of his more controversial actions to include settlement activity in the West Bank and a 'reform' of the Supreme Court's power. With the support of the extreme right tipping him back into office, and some of his far-right Knesset allies are pretty damn extreme, along with two 'devils he knew' in power and thought were contained his path to maintaining power was relatively secure for the moment.
Unfortunately for the Israeli and Palestinian people while Netanyahu may be a great politician he has been a pretty poor leader.
Yep. Netenyahu's actions certainly helped put Israel in the crosshairs, and Hamas' actions were absolutely vile.
Those two thoughts can coexist.
Actually we haven’t. The Russians have leveled many towns in east Ukraine, and they have not constituted war crimes because they were valid military targets. Outside the devastation of those cities or types of munitions used, rarely do you hear about accusations of war crimes. It is predominantly when Russia launches cruise missiles into urban centers with the clear intent on terrorizing innocent civilians. You’re gaslighting everyone here with a false narrative to prove your point.
I would also level a 5 story building with 1 terrorist in it, if it meant I was saving the lives of just 1 Marine or solider. Easy to throw spears from the cheap seats about combat situations you’ve never experienced or don’t fully understand.
…and again there you go wanting to cite international law for justifying a stance, but claim international law doesn’t exist.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Netanyahu is a primary actor in all this, but overly simplistic to say he deserves all the blame.
For most of the 00s, Israel had a more liberal government that attempted to work a two state solution and the Palistinians responded by voting Hamas into power and ratcheting up a bombing campaign.
That a hard liner like Netanyahu was reelected to Prime Minister after a decade hiatus is a direct result of Hamas led Palestine showing that the carrot wasn't going to stop their acts of violence. Blaming him for Oct 7 is akin to blaming President Buchanon as the sole reason for the American Civil War.
Then you'd go to prison. What immoral nonsense
Tell me you don’t understand ROE, without telling me you don’t understand ROE.
I won’t go down the rabbit hole of CDE estimation because clearly, we have a method and process that makes leveling a 5-story building extremely improbable.
Yet apparently the Israelis do not. That's my point.
Flash, so Oct 7th was Netanyahu’s fault? YHGTBFSM . . .
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