I hope you're in charge of a lemonade stand.
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War in Israel
- Thread starter Mirage
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Griz, that's exactly where I'm at. I hope any innocent Palestinians get out but collateral damage is going to happen in a war. Surprised some on here can't grasp that.
You’re the one painting this shit show black and white and saying kill ‘em all so it really seems like your crowd.
Average Monke
A primate with internet access
The recent deployment of the Ike CSG to the Red Sea has sparked my curiosity about a specific topic. How is a CSG protected when transiting the Suez Canal? Such a movement presents some serious challenges. I presume escort ships are not allowed to transit the canal with radars/defensive systems active nor a flight ops permissible. Are USAF assets routed to assist? Does Egypt provide it's own security? What happens if we are actively in a shooting war? Thanks in advance!
A lot of those answers are going to fall into the realm of operational security (OPSEC) and should not be answered on a public forum. However, suffice it to say that threat asessment & protections for the CSG (not just the CVN) do exist, and if we were actively in a shooting war in that specific location, it's very likely that the Suez would not be functioning. That has ramifications far beyond the CSG and its movements.
All of that to say that much of the world has a vested interest in keeping the Suez open and safe to transit.
Average Monke
A primate with internet access
100%. I should have specified that I'm looking for broad strokes and nothing venturing near the realm of classified info. I also understand if nothing can be divulged.
Retiring soon, so that seems like a legit option. Appreciate the best wishes!
The problem is not just what is explicity classified, but what unclassified info can be pieced together into a larger classified picture. Literally no one who can credibly answer the question is going to talk about CV force protection in restricted waters other than to say that it exists.
Oh, is Israel facing a genocide? How long do you think they have before Hamas destroys the Israeli military and starts the wholesale slaughter? Maybe I missed that reporting.
Israel has every right to defend themselves. They also have every responsibility to avoid disproportional collateral damage, which they are currently not taking seriously. Writing off all non-combatants as additional terrorists to be killed is, frankly, insane, and it's called a war crime. That you can follow that up with your claim that you have empathy for the Palestinians is downright absurd.
While I obviously can't speak to the allegiance of every person killed in this conflict, the fact that the Israelis have killed over 5x as many people as have died on their side (most during the Oct 7th attacks) definitely speaks volumes about proportionality.
Average Monke
A primate with internet access
What does "proportionality" even look like? This isn't some tit for tat border skirmish with the implicit agreement of equal escalation. Just Hamas didn't kill 10,000 Israelis doesn't mean they didn't try to. I'm sure they would jump at the opportunity to kill 1,000,000 if given the opportunity. This whole argument of proportionality makes no sense to me when we should expect to see very asymmetrical results. .
I think you're misunderstanding what is meant by proportionality, then. Google "Law of Armed Conflict Proportionality". Basically, each individual attack cannot cause a disproportionate amount of collateral damage to non-military targets. So dropping bombs on a hospital that kill, say 10 Hamas fighters and 50 civilians, is disproportionate and wrong. This creates a problem when Hamas is using hospitals for military purposes alongside civilians seeking care... but it doesn't override the need for proportionality. It seems Israel doesn't care how many civilians they kill as long as they accomplish at least something militarily. That is how war crimes are committed.
BattlingTrain
SNA Pro-Rec Y
Just an idea for some since this is a very contentious topic and emotions get involved. Just type out your long post you're gonna make because you're angry, then delete. You get to write out everything that makes you angry without throwing fuel on the fire.
I'm a former Intel analyst who has worked almost exclusively counter terrorism and this is a conflict that I think has no happy endings. I think that what's happening is wrong and don't have a solution to make it right. It's currently not really our problem and at this point I think the best bet for anyone who isn't a policy maker is just sit back and stay informed in case it does become our problem. There is no logical answer to fix what is essentially a religious war over terroritory.
I'm a former Intel analyst who has worked almost exclusively counter terrorism and this is a conflict that I think has no happy endings. I think that what's happening is wrong and don't have a solution to make it right. It's currently not really our problem and at this point I think the best bet for anyone who isn't a policy maker is just sit back and stay informed in case it does become our problem. There is no logical answer to fix what is essentially a religious war over terroritory.
Proportionality is evaluated as it relates to military advantage obtained, not body count ratios. That was the whole justification behind Hiroshima and Nagasaki, at least from those who argue that the bombs were necessary. They killed scores of civilians . . . but it ended the war. Yes, I know the arguments for that particular example aren't quite that cut and dried, but that's what proportionality means.
You also have to take into account human shields, sadly.
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