WTF? We fly the pattern in freaking T-45's at least 100 kts slower than that. Do you mean the break? Or are you seriously at 230 on downwind?
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VANCE - Facts about Primary?
- Thread starter Saluki
- Start date
WTF? We fly the pattern in freaking T-45's at least 100 kts slower than that. Do you mean the break? Or are you seriously at 230 on downwind?
Nah...not studying. My wife gets mad if I read Maxim on the shitter, so this is my option
Sounds like your option is to get a new wife...not leave NATOPS strewn about the shitter. (some of us can call our wives from the Royal Palace and give running commentary)
The Air Force has a different pattern... They have an 'outer' downwind that is flown clean (if I recall correctly... Similar to the size of the GCA box). The 'inner' downwind is flown dirty, but not on speed (as opposed to 120ish knots on speed Navy style).
The Air Force's pattern is much more complex. The Navy pattern is beautifully simple.
Two downwind legs? What the---?
So they have no break? Say it ain't so.
So they have no break? Say it ain't so.
They have a break... It's how you enter 'inside' downwind.
torpedo0126
Member
They just upped it as of last week from 200kts to 230 kts. And yes, I should have specified like Godspeed said, they have an inner/outer.
Its more complex because you have to pay attention a lot more to other's radio calls. For example, say you land and do a touch and go and want to request a closed pattern. Well, if you were listening and heard someone call "initial" you know that you can't do that and have to go to the 'outer pattern.' As you come around the outer pattern to enter the 'inner' pattern, you heard someone call 'radar initial' you know you can't continue. You must break out of the pattern to the high patter ~3000MSL and go to the VFR entry point and start basically all over.
Im sure that makes no sense, but it was just to illustrate the complexities.
"That's the artificial horizon, which is better than the actual horizon. "
Yeah that sounds like a retarded way to waste gas
The Air Force doesn't (or didn't in my case) put any emphasis on not 'wasting' gas.
torpedo0126
Member
60˚, 2Gs all the way down to final.
Probably good for Primary studs. Most of my studs could barely handle the 30 degree, 1g break anyway.
The Vance pattern wasn't rocket surgery...the AF tried really hard to make it complicated...but just like driving in traffic, the problems happened at intersections. As long as your head wasn't up yer ass you could handle it. That, and the entire area under Vance and the surrounding MOA's are alignd in N/S and E/W roads and grids...pretty hard to get lost or off course, find a big road...find the big water tower on the big road, now find the TWO big silos by the big water tower by the big road...Bison, you're home.
What I saw at Whiting was not complicated and most students got it too...it was just that I would say, 70% of the time, the studs finished the flight on their last touch-n-go at an outlying airfield. So they would come into the home break and just fuck it away. For 8+ years prior to me being an IP at Whiting, I flew around the boat, a easy but tougher patter no doubt. Maybe with the T-6, we can step up the speed for those who select Tailhook, 250KIAS breaks with some pull on the jet. A stop gap, if needed of course.
Yeah, I fucked away a break or two (or three)...usually roll to 60, pull power, flash the boards if I was carrying a little smash, climb a hundred feet, get slow, add power, drop the nose, roll out (wide) crab in, sneak below 150 to drop flaps/gear, hit the 180 (what the AF calls the "Perch") about 1/2 mile late...low/drug-in/angling final...touch down long, but firm, and (once) blow a tire trying to make the early taxiway...all in a days work as a nugget!
Pickle
Oh, and lose a case of beer and a class patch or two getting the tire.
Pickle
Oh, and lose a case of beer and a class patch or two getting the tire.