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Usna Or Nrotc?
- Thread starter BYPASS
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"I don't know why anyone would choose NROTC over the USNA. I understand that ROTC kids get the whole college experience and they aren't socially distorted when they leave, but...... WHY??? I could only see someone turning down USNA for MIT or Stanford with a full ride."
Ace-
It's a matter of personal choice. And, although the full ride is a definite attraction, it shouldn't be the deciding factor. I have never heard a negative word from anyone who has been in ROTC, unlike those who have graduated from the Academy. Not only do I personally know a few grads who have told me that if they had it to do over again, they'd probably have gone the ROTC route, but I had the chance to talk with some of the mids while at the summer seminar. They couldn't tell me a whole lot, but basically wanted me to read in between the lines. It wasn't difficult. It's easy to sit from the outside and think of what it would be like to be inside, but you just can't. You have to realize that things aren't necessarily going to be like you predict. Best advice I have is to meet and talk with grads and visit the ROTC units you're interested in. It has been a real eye opener for me.
Ace-
It's a matter of personal choice. And, although the full ride is a definite attraction, it shouldn't be the deciding factor. I have never heard a negative word from anyone who has been in ROTC, unlike those who have graduated from the Academy. Not only do I personally know a few grads who have told me that if they had it to do over again, they'd probably have gone the ROTC route, but I had the chance to talk with some of the mids while at the summer seminar. They couldn't tell me a whole lot, but basically wanted me to read in between the lines. It wasn't difficult. It's easy to sit from the outside and think of what it would be like to be inside, but you just can't. You have to realize that things aren't necessarily going to be like you predict. Best advice I have is to meet and talk with grads and visit the ROTC units you're interested in. It has been a real eye opener for me.
Holy Smokes!
Wow, that's a heck of a resume your son has. What's not to like? You must be very proud of him.
They took me (in 1976) and in comparison, I'm not even in his league! I had a 3.5 and 1390, got the raspberry from USCGA and a thumbs up from West Point and Annapolis. A year of high school soccer, not a whole lot else other than various odds and ends. As I recall, I was an alternate. The numero Uno guy bowed out, so on April 22d 1976, the telegram from Sen Harry F Byrd junior of Virginia showed up and I was dancing the funky chicken shortly thereafter. (Yes, I owned polyester shirts back then, a fact I can never be proud of . . .)
I hope the telegram arrives for your son soon, but if he has to choose, USCGA is no slouch itself. The Coast Guard guys I served with have all been great, he'd be joining a great club.
Best wishes.
Demento
navyfan said:
Wow, that's a heck of a resume your son has. What's not to like? You must be very proud of him.
They took me (in 1976) and in comparison, I'm not even in his league! I had a 3.5 and 1390, got the raspberry from USCGA and a thumbs up from West Point and Annapolis. A year of high school soccer, not a whole lot else other than various odds and ends. As I recall, I was an alternate. The numero Uno guy bowed out, so on April 22d 1976, the telegram from Sen Harry F Byrd junior of Virginia showed up and I was dancing the funky chicken shortly thereafter. (Yes, I owned polyester shirts back then, a fact I can never be proud of . . .)
I hope the telegram arrives for your son soon, but if he has to choose, USCGA is no slouch itself. The Coast Guard guys I served with have all been great, he'd be joining a great club.
Best wishes.
Demento
Demento,
He hasn't heard a thing yet. Believe me, from the kids he met at Summer Seminar, those stats now are run of the mill. With a vision waiver, even more mundane. I only listed that stuff in response to a question I thought was directed my way. Not bragging--he did the work, and he'll have to make the decision. One mistake I think USNA is making (IMHO) is making these kids wait so long, especially when they are hearing from other places. No matter how bad a kid wants USNA, they also want to feel like they're wanted. And we've (and I assume the others waiting here) have gotten nothing from USNA since our son got his nomination. And he's had two calls in the meantime from USCGA. And we see story after story about the recruited USNA athletes already getting their appointments (do a google daily news alert for "naval academy," and you'll get updates everyday), and it's hard not to feel like an afterthought. His best buddy got into USAFA over a month ago. Guys are hearing from USMA everyday. Our son heard from NROTC in November. That's why I mentioned on another post--do what's best for yourself because the USNA is filling their needs in the order they need them. In our town, there's an athlete (in a very minor sport) who had no interest in USNA until December. He got recruited by the coach, filled in his app., and he's already in. Just like that. Even our son said, "do they want future military officers or what?" First negative thing we've heard him say. But when you've had your stuff in since July, and you've got some other offers from places that seem more interested... It will definitely be a hard decision, but he's going to make it with his eyes more open. Which is good. Best of luck to everybody waiting to hear.
He hasn't heard a thing yet. Believe me, from the kids he met at Summer Seminar, those stats now are run of the mill. With a vision waiver, even more mundane. I only listed that stuff in response to a question I thought was directed my way. Not bragging--he did the work, and he'll have to make the decision. One mistake I think USNA is making (IMHO) is making these kids wait so long, especially when they are hearing from other places. No matter how bad a kid wants USNA, they also want to feel like they're wanted. And we've (and I assume the others waiting here) have gotten nothing from USNA since our son got his nomination. And he's had two calls in the meantime from USCGA. And we see story after story about the recruited USNA athletes already getting their appointments (do a google daily news alert for "naval academy," and you'll get updates everyday), and it's hard not to feel like an afterthought. His best buddy got into USAFA over a month ago. Guys are hearing from USMA everyday. Our son heard from NROTC in November. That's why I mentioned on another post--do what's best for yourself because the USNA is filling their needs in the order they need them. In our town, there's an athlete (in a very minor sport) who had no interest in USNA until December. He got recruited by the coach, filled in his app., and he's already in. Just like that. Even our son said, "do they want future military officers or what?" First negative thing we've heard him say. But when you've had your stuff in since July, and you've got some other offers from places that seem more interested... It will definitely be a hard decision, but he's going to make it with his eyes more open. Which is good. Best of luck to everybody waiting to hear.
navyfan- Thanks, and best of luck to your son also! I share the same thoughts your son does. They say they want leaders, but it appears as if they want brainiacs, and especially athletes (will take those with lower gpas and test scores). I think I'm gonna go for VMI. They've made it clear they want me and quite frankly, I want to be where I'm wanted. It's a great school and I'll get great military training. The majority of us who have not yet heard from USNA will not receive an appointment, but yet they won't bother to send us a rejection letter because they're probably holding out to May 1st just in case others that received appointments back out or end up having medical problems or whatever. Kinda like being waitlisted I guess.
Bypass,
We thought we might get something in the mail this weekend--especially since the Candidate Bulletin mentions Order to report letters going out in early April. Your theory might be right about keeping some kids in limbo till early May. Our son won't wait until then. He's pretty much sold on the NROTC program and if he doesn't hear by next week, he's going to commit to NROTC. He sent his decline letter into USCGA a few days ago--he's just too close to the Navy people we know to go Coast Guard, although he really liked the people he heard from there. The local jock getting in a few weeks after applying to USNA really turned him off, though. Anyway, good luck either way. You can't go wrong with VMI--can't be any more humid in August there than in Annapolis :>))
We thought we might get something in the mail this weekend--especially since the Candidate Bulletin mentions Order to report letters going out in early April. Your theory might be right about keeping some kids in limbo till early May. Our son won't wait until then. He's pretty much sold on the NROTC program and if he doesn't hear by next week, he's going to commit to NROTC. He sent his decline letter into USCGA a few days ago--he's just too close to the Navy people we know to go Coast Guard, although he really liked the people he heard from there. The local jock getting in a few weeks after applying to USNA really turned him off, though. Anyway, good luck either way. You can't go wrong with VMI--can't be any more humid in August there than in Annapolis :>))
I was in South Bend this weekend, at a NROTC conference put on by the Notre Dame unit.
There, I met a high school kid who has a NROTC scholarship to Notre Dame, and just got his acceptance to Annapolis last week. (I would not mind being between rock and a hard place!) He is on the fence between the two, and asked ND kids and USNA kids for some assistance. I stayed uninvolved, but listened closely to the two arguments.
Based on what I heard, I know that if I was 17 again and went the college route (rather than enlistment), I would choose the Academy over "Big University USA" for one primary reason: Class size/personal attention.
I presently go to "Small College USA," and I can tell you that class size is of great importance when choosing a school. To know that you can talk to your professors "off-line" at any time is a major help. (To know that your professors will know your NAME is a major help!) From what the Academy kids were saying, their class sizes were small, and academic assistance was abundant. Since a commission requires a degree, it is important to do all that you can to get that degree. (Like one of my professors said - The goal of college is to graduate. If you accidentally learn something along the way, that is all the better...)
I have experienced officers from all routes - prior enlisted, NROTC, Academy, etc. - and have noticed virtually no difference in the quality of leadership. Maybe I just have faith in the system...
BTW, navyfan, the only way he can't go wrong with VMI is if he cannot make it into The Citadel
There, I met a high school kid who has a NROTC scholarship to Notre Dame, and just got his acceptance to Annapolis last week. (I would not mind being between rock and a hard place!) He is on the fence between the two, and asked ND kids and USNA kids for some assistance. I stayed uninvolved, but listened closely to the two arguments.
Based on what I heard, I know that if I was 17 again and went the college route (rather than enlistment), I would choose the Academy over "Big University USA" for one primary reason: Class size/personal attention.
I presently go to "Small College USA," and I can tell you that class size is of great importance when choosing a school. To know that you can talk to your professors "off-line" at any time is a major help. (To know that your professors will know your NAME is a major help!) From what the Academy kids were saying, their class sizes were small, and academic assistance was abundant. Since a commission requires a degree, it is important to do all that you can to get that degree. (Like one of my professors said - The goal of college is to graduate. If you accidentally learn something along the way, that is all the better...)
I have experienced officers from all routes - prior enlisted, NROTC, Academy, etc. - and have noticed virtually no difference in the quality of leadership. Maybe I just have faith in the system...
BTW, navyfan, the only way he can't go wrong with VMI is if he cannot make it into The Citadel
snizo
Supply Officer
I go to a big university ... and I talk to my professors whenever I want. Just because I have a lot of people in my class doesn't mean any of them go to see the professor during his office hours!
How easy it is to talk to a professor depends on how much the professor wants to talk to you ... and that is regardless of what school you are at.
How easy it is to talk to a professor depends on how much the professor wants to talk to you ... and that is regardless of what school you are at.
In college, my class size for most classes was about 30 people. Maybe half of these people decided to attend class on anything resembling a regular basis. There was never a long line to talk to the professor.
Granted, some of my courses were in large auditoriums, but these were non-major classes. The school also realized the large size of these classes and provided TAs and websites for classes. So, don't go thinking that you're going to be fighting off 300 people to talk to your US History teacher.
The one thing I will say for a civilian school is that you have to be self motivated and disciplined. You make your own schedule and its up to you to attend classes. None of my professors would have cared if I never showed up to a single class. Also, to get the best professors and classes you have try and get them. The opportunities exist, but aren't crammed down your throat. The discipline necessary at a civilian college is not necessarily the lockstep military discipline, but instead the kind of discipline that results in you going to class when there's plenty of other distractions going on or when there are no immediate repurcussions for not attending.
Granted, some of my courses were in large auditoriums, but these were non-major classes. The school also realized the large size of these classes and provided TAs and websites for classes. So, don't go thinking that you're going to be fighting off 300 people to talk to your US History teacher.
The one thing I will say for a civilian school is that you have to be self motivated and disciplined. You make your own schedule and its up to you to attend classes. None of my professors would have cared if I never showed up to a single class. Also, to get the best professors and classes you have try and get them. The opportunities exist, but aren't crammed down your throat. The discipline necessary at a civilian college is not necessarily the lockstep military discipline, but instead the kind of discipline that results in you going to class when there's plenty of other distractions going on or when there are no immediate repurcussions for not attending.
KBayDog,
I actually had a chance to go to Citadel, but VMI is instate for me and much closer to home. I'm now trying to decide whether or not I should go to Purdue or VMI. I'm leaning towards VMI (went to lacrosse camp there), but I may change my mind in the next day or 2. It's a tough decision. I like the social aspects of Purdue even though I'm long way away from family and friends there, but I like the class size and proximity of VMI. From what I've read about it though, it's not much different than the Academy. Maybe not quite as prestigous, still a great school to come from.
I actually had a chance to go to Citadel, but VMI is instate for me and much closer to home. I'm now trying to decide whether or not I should go to Purdue or VMI. I'm leaning towards VMI (went to lacrosse camp there), but I may change my mind in the next day or 2. It's a tough decision. I like the social aspects of Purdue even though I'm long way away from family and friends there, but I like the class size and proximity of VMI. From what I've read about it though, it's not much different than the Academy. Maybe not quite as prestigous, still a great school to come from.
For What It's Worth
I heard from West Point two months before Navy and Senator Byrd contacted me. Since USNA was my First choice (I lived in Fairfax County, 62 miles away door to door, and Grandpa was a Gunner's Mate in WW I, cousin was an OS during Viet Nam era) I was willing to wait, hoping for my first choice. I had until May 15th, I think to reply back to West Point. I met a guy on induction day who had gotten his stuff all sorted out in early May! Yeah, so I was not the latest deal.
As to the Athletics bit, I will make no comment, other than to say that, in looking for someone who will typically succeed at flight training, (someone I would bet money on) what you are looking for is a B+ or better intercollegiate athlete as your perfect recruiting target, just as the Commandant of the Marine Corps is looking for, or was when General Mundy was Commandant, "that 176 or 184 pound intercollegiate wrestler." Those are of course generalized stereotypes, composite icons that represent the blend of qualities that typically lead to success, although other traits, see Hyman Rickover and sheer hard work and brilliance, are also models for success.
-Demento
As I said, USCGA is a very selective, very elite, circle of candidates to be included in. With your son's credentials, no surprise they are interested in him. Best of luck to him, and you as well, in a best fit.
navyfan said:
I heard from West Point two months before Navy and Senator Byrd contacted me. Since USNA was my First choice (I lived in Fairfax County, 62 miles away door to door, and Grandpa was a Gunner's Mate in WW I, cousin was an OS during Viet Nam era) I was willing to wait, hoping for my first choice. I had until May 15th, I think to reply back to West Point. I met a guy on induction day who had gotten his stuff all sorted out in early May! Yeah, so I was not the latest deal.
As to the Athletics bit, I will make no comment, other than to say that, in looking for someone who will typically succeed at flight training, (someone I would bet money on) what you are looking for is a B+ or better intercollegiate athlete as your perfect recruiting target, just as the Commandant of the Marine Corps is looking for, or was when General Mundy was Commandant, "that 176 or 184 pound intercollegiate wrestler." Those are of course generalized stereotypes, composite icons that represent the blend of qualities that typically lead to success, although other traits, see Hyman Rickover and sheer hard work and brilliance, are also models for success.
-Demento
As I said, USCGA is a very selective, very elite, circle of candidates to be included in. With your son's credentials, no surprise they are interested in him. Best of luck to him, and you as well, in a best fit.
Navyfan-- In response to your son's situation, I understand how the waiting period can be. I did not find out until the end of April that I had been accepted to USNA and had stats very similar to your sons, including needing the vision waiver, though I did not attend summer seminar. I will say one thing though, if you want to be a Navy pilot, the Academy is the way to go these days because they will pay for PRK to correct your vision. LASIK is not authorized and I am not sure how it works with getting PRK on your own if you are in ROTC, but the doctors that perform the procedure at Bethesda are excellent and there is no cost involved. If your son is looking to fly, USNA is the way to go.
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