USAF & MSM's

[Gatordev]

The GWOT SM is like a second national defense service medal. You'd have to try really hard not to earn it.

Yeah I guess maybe I have the GWOT. Trying to be by the book so as to not look like an unprepared shitbird at our last change of command, I got one, and then after asking around, it was pretty much 50/50 whether I rated it. So I didn't wear it. Maybe I suck at reading but I didn't really see anything in the regs that confirmed that it would have been authorized for me.......and I don't care about ribbons, aside from getting called out by someone for not having one I should have. For reference, I was @ 3.5 years active prior to ever getting to the fleet, due to flight school, FRS, various extended periods of waiting between training commands, etc. Checked into my fleet squadron immediately after they got back from cruise, so that guaranteed me having the most time possible in the command prior to deploying. By the time we deploy, I will be either the 2nd or 3rd most senior JO, which will be interesting with no cruise experience.

I'm on the same page as you guys, I was just asking for the sake of MIDNJAC in case he may not be aware of what he rates. Whether you want to wear it is, understandably, a completely different matter.

What's important to you may not match the order of merit. I know one of the awards I'm most proud of is a Coast Guard MUC. Why? Because some bad guys were "permanently fired" from their jobs due to actions on one of my deployments and the CG recognized this.

 

[nittany03]

It's authorized after 30 days of service once commission, but anyways I've enjoyed this conversation on how others do things.

USN has a quote about "initial accession training" and "follow-on career-specific training" not counting, which led me to believe that you rate 30 days into your fleet tour as an aviator.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Due to content in this thread, if none of you heard about this, here is an article to show how the USAF has an "everyone gets an award mentality" which created a shit storm across 'ol big blue's USAFco... http://www.dyess.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123296425. This shows how our medals are watered down and gimmes.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

I am sure somewhere some deserving soldier/sailor/marine/airman was involved in an operation and actually came under fire that rec'd nothing more than a thanks from the guys he or she was with, just sayin.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

USN has a quote about "initial accession training" and "follow-on career-specific training" not counting, which led me to believe that you rate 30 days into your fleet tour as an aviator.

You're correct. I'm using tapatalk from my phone and couldn't edit, but I reposted right below that it was actually 30 days after getting to your first permanent assignment. I remember wen this medal came out in 2005, when I was still in tech school, but we were allowed to wear right away for some reason.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

I am sure somewhere some deserving soldier/sailor/marine/airman was involved in an operation and actually came under fire that rec'd nothing more than a thanks from the guys he or she was with, just sayin.

Yup, I agree. There was huge backlash from it. Same with the new drone operator medal.

 

[Calculon]

Oddly enough, I was just reading some biographies of some of the first guys who were the most senior enlisted in their respective branches. Yes, it's hard to compare different eras, but hearing about people who served from WW2 through Vietnam and then seeing what they were awarded compared to these stories....

 

[MAKE VAPES]

The Marine TBS instructor and I had an interesting conversation with the AF O-3 Security Forces guy on my Vulnerability Assessment team in CENTCOM when he tried to say that "he earned his 3 Meritorious Service Medals!" for "leading" his ~20 observers, citers and harrassers as they ensured all stop signs and speed limits were obeyed on bases here in the states. The Marine Captain's palm face nearly left a perminent mark. There were AF hurt feelings after the baby seal clubbing.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20...dal-dumped-59-high-tech-troops-honored-device

 

[CAMike]

It has always been thus, during Vietnam the USAF routinely would award a SS for a deed that the USN would consider DFC-worthy, and the same for other high combat awards. In addition, the AF authorized combat "V"s for DFCs whereas the Navy did not, regardless of BDA or ground fire ferocity.

For example of AF lameness re awards, Navy (then)LCDR Mike Estocin and his anti-SAM "Shrike" configured A-4 Skyhawk, were loaned to the USAF to lead a multi-division strike by their bombers on a critical NVN SAM site, as they had no properly equipped A/C available. Leading the strike in at low level, Estocin's 'Hawk' sustaind severe AAA damage, and trailing fire, he pressed on to the target which the strike totally destroyed. LCDR Estocin's aircraft crashed just beyond the target and he was KIA.

Upon return to their Thailand base, the AF Pilots debriefed the mission, then petitioned their CO to recommend Estocin for the AF Cross... were denied, then as a group, begged the Wing Commander and were again denied. Risking their careers by vowing to take it to higher authority, about then, the Navy stepped in and assumed award recommendation process for CAPT Estocin. After a thorough investigation including BDA photography, crew eye witness interviews, and target defensive activity, a recommendation for the Navy MOH was made. This was eventually approved and presented posthumously to his widow.

I flew many hops, in dets with Mike when we were Squadronmates in VA-125 ('62-'65). I am proud to say that he was one of 2 fellow "Scooter" drivers to be awarded the MOH in Vietnam. The USAF turned out to be kind of 'petty' in this instance, in that it didn't involve one of their own!
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*CAPT (then) LT "Mike" Estocin @ VA-125 NAS Lemoore - 1964
BzB

Captain Estocin also had a USN ship named after him. His memory and story lived on as FFG-15 out of Mayport in the 1980's. http://navysite.de/ffg/FFG15.HTM