USAF & MSM's

[exNavyOffRec]

I was at an event yesterday and next to me happened to be a USAFR E-8, not too unusual, but then I noticed she had 4 Meritorious Service Medals, and then I noticed she had nothing to indicated any service overseas, I was thinking maybe she had done multiple tours and great things, but no. I guess some services just give out medals more than others.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

I was at an event yesterday and next to me happened to be a USAFR E-8, not too unusual, but then I noticed she had 4 Meritorious Service Medals, and then I noticed she had nothing to indicated any service overseas, I was thinking maybe she had done multiple tours and great things, but no. I guess some services just give out medals more than others.

You are correct about that...Anyways, it is standard in the AF to get a medal for PCSing and deployment. Typically E-4 and under will get an achievement medal, E-5/E-6 will get a comm, and E-7 and above will get a MSM. So, she's probably been E-7 and above for awhile. With switching over to the Navy, I'll lose 4 of my AF awards, that's how irrelevant they are..

 

[scoober78]

Typically E-4 and under will get an achievement medal, E-5/E-6 will get a comm, and E-7 and above will get a MSM. So, she's probably been E-7 and above for awhile.

This is ludicrous. Seriously?!

I'll lose 4 of my AF awards, that's how irrelevant they are..

....and gain bucket-fulls of self respect.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

This is ludicrous. Seriously?!


....and gain bucket-fulls of self respect.

I couldn't make this up.... I have 3 achievement medals (2 AF, 1 Army) and I'll get a joint comm before I leave for OCS and I'm behind the curve ! I've been in almost 9yrs with 1 deployment. A lot of my E-5 friends have 3 comms and a few achievements. Trust me, I'm not worried about my irrelvant Air Force ribbons

 

[Flash]

.....I've been in almost 9yrs with 1 deployment......

Nothing against you personally but that says a lot about the USAF, and not in a good way.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

Nothing against you personally but that says a lot about the USAF and not in a good way.

It's more my career field (weather) than anything else. After basic training and our tech school, I've already been in a year before I got to my first duty station. There's about 3yrs of OJT before we are even allowed to deploy. After my deployment, I did do a remote tour in Korea (so I do have additional overseas time), but I don't count that as a deployment. After I returned to the states, I had a few kids and now I'm currently at a joint headquarters which is a 3yr non-deployable billet. I would have loved more deployments and overseas time, it just didn't work out.

 

[Flash]

It's more my career field (weather) than anything else......

Unfortunately I have seen it across several different career fields, not just smaller and more specialized ones like weather.

 

[MasterBates]

12 years in, 4 deployments, and 2 "longer than workups, not quite a deployment" things.

Plus JTF Katrina and JTF Rita.

And I deployed a lot less than many of my friends.. I was probably on the low end of normal for deployments.

 

[Gatordev]

It's more my career field (weather) than anything else.

But the question is: do you have the qualification to launch the giant read ballon from you super-secret covert operating area? Because if you do, I'll admit I'm a little jealous.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

But the question is: do you have the qualification to launch the giant read ballon from you super-secret covert operating area? Because if you do, I'll admit I'm a little jealous.

Perhaps

 

[BusyBee604]

... but then I noticed she had 4 Meritorious Service Medals, and then I noticed she had nothing to indicated any service overseas, I was thinking maybe she had done multiple tours and great things, but no. I guess some services just give out medals more than others

It has always been thus, during Vietnam the USAF routinely would award a SS for a deed that the USN would consider DFC-worthy, and the same for other high combat awards. In addition, the AF authorized combat "V"s for DFCs whereas the Navy did not, regardless of BDA or ground fire ferocity.

For example of AF lameness re awards, Navy (then)LCDR Mike Estocin and his anti-SAM "Shrike" configured A-4 Skyhawk, were loaned to the USAF to lead a multi-division strike by their bombers on a critical NVN SAM site, as they had no properly equipped A/C available. Leading the strike in at low level, Estocin's 'Hawk' sustaind severe AAA damage, and trailing fire, he pressed on to the target which the strike totally destroyed. LCDR Estocin's aircraft crashed just beyond the target and he was KIA.

Upon return to their Thailand base, the AF Pilots debriefed the mission, then petitioned their CO to recommend Estocin for the AF Cross... were denied, then as a group, begged the Wing Commander and were again denied. Risking their careers by vowing to take it to higher authority, about then, the Navy stepped in and assumed award recommendation process for CAPT Estocin. After a thorough investigation including BDA photography, crew eye witness interviews, and target defensive activity, a recommendation for the Navy MOH was made. This was eventually approved and presented posthumously to his widow.

I flew many hops, in dets with Mike when we were Squadronmates in VA-125 ('62-'65). I am proud to say that he was one of 2 fellow "Scooter" drivers to be awarded the MOH in Vietnam. The USAF turned out to be kind of 'petty' in this instance, in that it didn't involve one of their own!

*CAPT (then) LT "Mike" Estocin @ VA-125 NAS Lemoore - 1964
BzB

 

[Flash]

.....the AF Pilots debriefed the mission, then petitioned their CO to recommend Estocin for the AF Cross... were denied, then as a group, begged the Wing Commander and were again denied. Risking their careers by vowing to take it to higher authority......The USAF turned out to be kind of 'petty' in this instance, in that it didn't involve one of their own......

Fortunately not the whole USAF from your description, good on the Air Force pilots for sticking up for their fellow aviator.

 

[Harrier Dude]

It has always been thus, during Vietnam the USAF routinely would award a SS for a deed that the USN would consider DFC-worthy, and the same for other high combat awards. In addition, the AF authorized combat "V"s for DFCs whereas the Navy did not, regardless of BDA or ground fire ferocity.

For example of AF lameness re awards, Navy (then)LCDR Mike Estocin and his anti-SAM "Shrike" configured A-4 Skyhawk, were loaned to the USAF to lead a multi-division strike by their bombers on a critical NVN SAM site, as they had no properly equipped A/C available. Leading the strike in at low level, Estocin's 'Hawk' sustaind severe AAA damage, and trailing fire, he pressed on to the target which the strike totally destroyed. LCDR Estocin's aircraft crashed just beyond the target and he was KIA.

Upon return to their Thailand base, the AF Pilots debriefed the mission, then petitioned their CO to recommend Estocin for the AF Cross... were denied, then as a group, begged the Wing Commander and were again denied. Risking their careers by vowing to take it to higher authority, about then, the Navy stepped in and assumed award recommendation process for CAPT Estocin. After a thorough investigation including BDA photography, crew eye witness interviews, and target defensive activity, a recommendation for the Navy MOH was made. This was eventually approved and presented posthumously to his widow.

I flew many hops, in dets with Mike when we were Squadronmates in VA-125 ('62-'65). I am proud to say that he was one of 2 fellow "Scooter" drivers to be awarded the MOH in Vietnam. The USAF turned out to be kind of 'petty' in this instance, in that it didn't involve one of their own!
View attachment 12099View attachment 12100
*CAPT (then) LT "Mike" Estocin @ VA-125 NAS Lemoore - 1964
BzB

Maybe Big Air Force was "petty", but it sounds like the regular everyday Air Force pilots were instrumental in getting him some of the recognition he deserved. Glad it worked out from the awards perspective.

*edit: Flash beat me to it.

 

[wlawr005]

12 years in, 4 deployments, and 2 "longer than workups, not quite a deployment" things.

Plus JTF Katrina and JTF Rita.

And I deployed a lot less than many of my friends.. I was probably on the low end of normal for deployments.

I think there is a "post your stats" thread in one of the commissioning forums here...but maybe you should start one for yourself.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

For example of AF lameness re awards, Navy (then)LCDR Mike Estocin and his anti-SAM "Shrike" configured A-4 Skyhawk, were loaned to the USAF to lead a multi-division strike by their bombers on a critical NVN SAM site, as they had no properly equipped A/C available. Leading the strike in at low level, Estocin's 'Hawk' sustaind severe AAA damage, and trailing fire, he pressed on to the target which the strike totally destroyed. LCDR Estocin's aircraft crashed just beyond the target and he was KIA.

His actions say alot about his character, thanks for sharing this.