UAVs, not just an Air Force gig anymore

[HeyJoe]

I am new to the Navy and I will never warm to this project. There is nothing more technological than the human mind. Autonomous, AI war-machines are no substitute for human instinct and intellect. I think that in a combat situation with a powerful nation, these "nextgen" piles of aluminum will show their true colors. I just don't trust them. And you have to trust a brother-in-arms. Need we say more?

What you're missing is that this isn't like the UCAV in the movie Stealth. There is no "AI" flying and fighting the UCAV. It's a human (or several) doing it from afar so real issue is whether human performs mission better in the cockpit or elsewhere.

 

[vaportrail]

So as I understand it, there will be no sort of, "auto-engage" capability? I am sure there are strong arguments on both sides, but in reality, I feel the more impersonal warfare becomes, the more we will engage in it. Then again, not much can be said about the obverse, ie., the last century. I guess the fundamental question is, when all the robots are gone, who will fight? Snotty nosed computer geeks? Men and women who have never seen or understood the reality of cold-blooded combat? I say why reinvent the wheel, just improve upon it.

 

[phrogdriver]

Leave the emotion at the door. Can these machines engage and kill a target better than a manned aircraft, with less risk and less cost? Check yes or no.

While a head on a swivel used to always be better for SA, sensors keep getting better and better. That machine can be built to see visible light, IR, UV, different types of radar, whatever. You can put all that stuff in a cockpit, but at some point that pilot can't deal with all that information. If all he's doing is looking at computer screens anyway, why not just take him out and put a team of guys looking at the screens 1000 miles away?

All this nonsense about depersonalizing was is just that. 20000 years ago, if you wanted to kill someone, you had to beat him to death with your bare hands. Then someone figured out how to use a club. Then someone figured out how to sling a rock at a distance. Killing became easier for the guy with the rock and the club. That's how it's supposed to work. God willing, the good guys will always be the ones with the technology to stand off and make the easy kills, while the bad guys have the hard job.

 

[Harrier Dude]

20000 years ago, if you wanted to kill someone, you had to beat him to death with your bare hands. Then someone figured out how to use a club. Then they invented the CH-46A. Then someone figured out how to sling a rock at a distance. Killing became easier for the guy with the rock and the club. That's how it's supposed to work.

Updated your history for you.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I say again...fuck the romance and glamor of going Downtown and letting the Enemy spit his last breath at thee, or manly jousting in the skies at pistol-shot distances. The robots and remote-control airplanes are the future, my friends.

As Patton said, you don't win a war by dying for your country, but by making the other dumb bastard die for his. If UCAS means more rat-eating Commies or crazy jihadis get blown to tiny bits and the Yankees all get to go home afterwards, then I'm all for it.

 

[BENDER]

These argument make good sense, but I am curious what you think about these machines against a more capable enemy? From a technical perspective, do you think a UAV with there electronic tether could be vulnerable?

 

[vaportrail]

once again, who will fight when all the robots are gone?? I suppose this is my problem with technology-- it seems to strip us of our most fundamental qualities. I suppose in my book, bravery shouldn't be one of those qualities we lose in our race for technological advancement. And BTW, if you aren't prepared to lose your life for your country, you shouldn't be fighting for it.

 

[Uncle Fester]

once again, who will fight when all the robots are gone?? I suppose this is my problem with technology-- it seems to strip us of our most fundamental qualities. I suppose in my book, bravery shouldn't be one of those qualities we lose in our race for technological advancement. And BTW, if you aren't prepared to lose your life for your country, you shouldn't be fighting for it.

Okay, Lothar of the Hill People...being prepared to die for your country and sending people in to die when there's a viable alternative are two very different things. There will always be a need for up-close-and-personal warfare, so don't go worrying about not getting to bayonet anyone. But we don't sacrifice people just to maintain our warrior heritage and enhance our manliness.

 

[vaportrail]

first of all, none of us can predict how "viable" these things will be, especially against a formidable adversary with equally advanced technology. all I am saying is avoid rushing into this new phase, and don't bet all your chips on the robots, because when they are all shot done, or fall outta the sky, I don't want a snotty nosed computer geek hopping in the cockpit of a superhornet thinking he knows what combat does to person. I think a combined force of manned and unmanned aircraft is the only way to properly balance this equation.

 

[ea6bflyr]

These UCAV's will have their place in the future of the Navy. We, as a nation, currently rely on mutiple UAV's to provide ISR and the ability to KILL THE ENEMY. While over in Iraq, I worked with guys that relied on the Armed UAV's to provide them cover and tipper. It only makes sense that the Navy needs these aircraft to evolve.

Will UCAV's be the SOLE aircraft in the Navy's Carrier Airwing inventory? NO
Will UCAV's augment a Carrier Airwing in providing longer on-station time and the ability to kill when directed? YES

I see this as a win-win. Yes, unfortunately, there will be fewer pilot slots and probably less jet slots....so the number will go from 42% to 35%.

my $0.02.

-ea6bflyr

 

[insanebikerboy]

all I am saying is avoid rushing into this new phase, and don't bet all your chips on the robots,

Well, I wouldn't consider it "rushing into" anything, as US combat UAV's have been around since the early 80's (the Pioneer anyone?). And I'm assuming that you've probably never seen the capabilities these things have, and when you pair that with the current threat level, the simply just make sense.

If you're that worried about flying, you can always come on over to the darkside, we'll be flying helo's for a good time to come.

 

[a2b2c3]

Still what happens with "radio failures" in the UCAV or jamming as it were? The little buggers just sit there until they run out of fuel? Part of the pros of having a pilot there is that you have someone to deal with situations as they develop. One good hit to a UCAV's transmitter and you effectively create a flying dart. These things will never replace a pilot at the controls no matter what you say. Having someone in the situation is better than someone 6000 miles away by a computer.

Of course this debate could go on forever and is going to be decided by somebody higher than us anyhow. I don't trust UAV's and never will. If there isn't a brain in the plane next to me I don't like it.

 

[MasterBates]

. If there isn't a brain in the plane next to me I don't like it.

Make sure skeds never puts you up for a FORM flight with me.

 

[phrogdriver]

One good hit to a UCAV's transmitter and you effectively create a flying dart.

One good hit to a pilot and you've got the same thing.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Still what happens with "radio failures" in the UCAV or jamming as it were? The little buggers just sit there until they run out of fuel? Part of the pros of having a pilot there is that you have someone to deal with situations as they develop. One good hit to a UCAV's transmitter and you effectively create a flying dart. These things will never replace a pilot at the controls no matter what you say. Having someone in the situation is better than someone 6000 miles away by a computer.

Well, no offense to you, but ignorance is bliss. Most, if not all, uav's have a "home" feature. By that, if they lose comms or have some other sort of failure, they return to a predetermined home base. So, they may not be able to continue providing support to the area, but assuming they can still physically fly, they'll get back to where they came from.