TSA or T&A ???

[SkywardET]

No, I do not.

IF I was runnin' the show ... it would go down differently.

Right now, we're lookin' for needles in haystacks ... and being 'lucky' is not a defensive strategy ...

Needles in haystacks is right. You're right that I don't know a whole lot about the TSA. All I know is that they have extra-Constitutional authority to be unnecessarily invasive, treat every American citizen as criminals, and have no power whatsoever over people like Richard Reid the shoe bomber that flew in from the UK or Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab the Nigerian underwear bomber that flew in from Amsterdam. All I know is that metal detectors and bomb sniffing dogs would catch essentially all passenger-based (and non-cargo) threats, yet somehow we are forced to undergo the ineffective "porno" body scanners and/or invasive "junk dunk" pat-downs to prove that we are innocent enough to board a plane.

how's that foil helmet fit? does it chafe?

I've got a fitted one.
Actually your remark is pretty idiotic. If you don't feel that the terrorists have long ago won the war, then that's one thing--but if you can't even understand what direction we're heading in then you have to be deluding yourself.

 

[Recovering LSO]

I've got a fitted one.

Easy killer. The comment was made in jest - sorry I didn't include a smiley face for you.

 

[Clux4]

Didn't your commissioning oath have SOMETHING to do with the Constitution? If this is how you truly feel, why don't you be the one to find another country. One that doesn't value the constitution and puts whole hearted trust and faith in the mostly-democratically elected government. Whatever other bullshit you espouse on this forum, it's fucking downright scary that you're that flippant about a discussion of something involving constitutionally protected freedoms.

I go for couple days and.....I might have to get off my high horses to address you considering your recent timely observation of my condescending remarks. Whatever.

Now to your bullshit rant. The TSA is apparently invading your privacy and the constitutional principles you have sworn to protect. What are you doing about it other than whining on a public forum? Since you took the same Oath I took, I expect you to do more, and show guys like me how to fight big government off our backs.

I took an oath to defend the constitution and not bunch of useless rants on privacy being invaded. Obviously we did not have this strict airline security policies before 9/11. Shit happened and we are taking measures.

What are you talking about? Whose scare tactics? The TSA's?

The rest of America doesn't have any semblance of "tactics" when it comes to getting through the airport. They're just fed up with the pointless intrusions and pissed off that anytime they question the wisdom of the TSA they're regarded as unpatriotic potential terrorists.

The scare tactic's by the anti-TSA crowd. American's are paying a small price relative to the amount to failed attacks we have encountered in last 5 years.
I believe the government has the sole responsibility of protecting it citizens and should use every means necessary to do just that. But as it appears for some, this statement is only true abroad and not at home. Everyone(flying public) is experiencing this, so what is the issue? It is not as if some people are getting preferential treatment.

At the end of the day, it boils down to your sense of PRIVACY and my sense of SECURITY. So to make everyone feel good, a middle of the road approach should suit everyone. WE can compromise security a little and privacy a little, so that everyone gets what they want. After all, that seems to be the approach in Washington.

 

[eas7888]

Just curious if there are any statistics out there about how many 'attacks' have been prevented by the TSA.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Just curious if there are any statistics out there about how many 'attacks' have been prevented by the TSA.

Zero.

That's what makes all of Clux's "security vs privacy" issues moot. What the TSA is doing here is not enhancing our security AT ALL. If they were, there might be some room for reasonable debate on if their actions ("security measures") are worth the invasion of privacy, but they're not. All we're doing is increasing the intrusions.

 

[Clux4]

Zero. That's what makes all of Clux's "security vs privacy" issues moot.

How would you know that? You cannot contribute meaningfully to this argument by making statements like this. It can neither be refuted nor accepted. Even if you were privy to such information, which I doubt, you would not be posting it on a public forum like this.

 

[HAL Pilot]

No, I do not.

IF I was runnin' the show ... it would go down differently.

Right now, we're lookin' for needles in haystacks ... and being 'lucky' is not a defensive strategy ...

Zero.

That's what makes all of Clux's "security vs privacy" issues moot. What the TSA is doing here is not enhancing our security AT ALL. If they were, there might be some room for reasonable debate on if their actions ("security measures") are worth the invasion of privacy, but they're not. All we're doing is increasing the intrusions.

What they said.

 

[insanebikerboy]

How would you know that? You cannot contribute meaningfully to this argument by making statements like this. It can neither be refuted nor accepted. Even if you were privy to such information, which I doubt, you would not be posting it on a public forum like this.

It seems as if that would be a pretty big coup to keep in the dark.

Guess what, the TSA was a good idea that has turned into a huge political waste of money.

The TSA doesn't solve shit and you know and I know it. Prove to me that it does solve or prevent stuff (ref: recent article of guy taking loaded gun on board) or that the TSA is the one responsible for stopping the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber. You can't. Plain and simple.

Yes I have done everything in my power to help solve it. My congressmen and senators are well aware of my feelings, and as a military member right now that's about as much as I can do.

 

[Harrier Dude]

How would you know that? You cannot contribute meaningfully to this argument by making statements like this. It can neither be refuted nor accepted. Even if you were privy to such information, which I doubt, you would not be posting it on a public forum like this.

I know it because the TSA would be shouting their victories from the rooftops. They are about as popular in the US as the Klan and Code Pink right now, and any successes that they had would be big news. The funny thing is that I'm sure that you know this, too. Perhaps it's possible that the TSA has foiled some dastardly and well conceived plots in absolute Top Secret James Bond fashion, but there is no evidence of that at all.

I believe that in this country, before we enact a law that limits the freedom of our citizens, we have to show a demonstrable benefit to the public interest that justifies that limitation.

We don't have that here. All the TSA is doing is making a percentage of our population feel better. That's it. We might as well buy lucky rabbit's feet and hand them out to passengers. At least that would be a whole lot less expensive.

 

[phrogdriver]

You're unlikely to catch anyone at the last line of defense. While I don't endorse all they've been doing, one can't judge the efficacy of gate security by whether or not they've caught anyone. They have increased the difficulty of getting a weapon aboard by some amount, which means the terrorists have to resort to more difficult and esoteric means of getting weapons aboard, which makes them more likely to get caught by other agencies.

Just because the old magnetometers didn't bust anyone with anything other than a pocket full of keys doesn't mean that the last 50 years of security was worthless, either.

Some here seem to be against any enhancement in security. Truth be told, we are getting more security than we used to. The question is whether the marginal benefit is worth the cost.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Some here seem to be against any enhancement in security. Truth be told, we are getting more security than we used to. The question is whether the marginal benefit is worth the cost.

I think that is what sums it up best for me. I have no problems with security, I have no problems with procedures being in place that make it difficult for people to blow me up. What I have a problem with is procedures that are so-so at best and cost me, the taxpayer, a ton of friggin money, and are being forced on us without any say so from our elected representatives et. al.

 

[Ducky]

Some more TSA intimidation. Again, for you koolaid drinkers, where does it stop?


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...s-using-force-critical-pilot/?test=latestnews

 

[Clux4]

I know it because the TSA would be shouting their victories from the rooftops. They are about as popular in the US as the Klan and Code Pink right now, and any successes that they had would be big news. The funny thing is that I'm sure that you know this, too. Perhaps it's possible that the TSA has foiled some dastardly and well conceived plots in absolute Top Secret James Bond fashion, but there is no evidence of that at all.

I believe that in this country, before we enact a law that limits the freedom of our citizens, we have to show a demonstrable benefit to the public interest that justifies that limitation.

We don't have that here. All the TSA is doing is making a percentage of our population feel better. That's it. We might as well buy lucky rabbit's feet and hand them out to passengers. At least that would be a whole lot less expensive.

I am not really buying your "the whole America" hates TSA. I still traveled a few weeks ago and everyone that went through security with me was cooperative and seemed to be friendly about the whole search. Even when I tried to get people's talk on the search. Most of the people around seemed to be okay with it. So just like the attempt to disrupt(protest) travel during the Thanksgiving period by non-conformist,the vast majority of Americans are probably not for getting rid of the TSA as you say. I really wonder where you are getting all the information to support your claim.

I wonder how many terrorist have been stopped by Military sentries standing at the gate. Since they really annoy/delay us by random vehicle searches and have not really caught any terrorist(except maybe the Quantico and NJ incidences), why don't we get rid of them all? Your line of reasoning on this issue is dangerous and maybe scary. Measures of effectiveness is really hard to quantify with security issues because there is an aspect(the enemy) that you can't always predict.

 

[pilot_man]

I am not really buying your "the whole America" hates TSA. I still traveled a few weeks ago and everyone that went through security with me was cooperative and seemed to be friendly about the whole search. Even when I tried to get people's talk on the search. Most of the people around seemed to be okay with it. So just like the attempt to disrupt(protest) travel during the Thanksgiving period by non-conformist,the vast majority of Americans are probably not for getting rid of the TSA as you say. I really wonder where you are getting all the information to support your claim.

I wonder how many terrorist have been stopped by Military sentries standing at the gate. Since they really annoy/delay us by random vehicle searches and have not really caught any terrorist(except maybe the Quantico and NJ incidences), why don't we get rid of them all? Your line of reasoning on this issue is dangerous and maybe scary. Measures of effectiveness is really hard to quantify with security issues because there is an aspect(the enemy) that you can't always predict.

Really? Dangerous and maybe scary? Because having my ID checked and maybe my car haphazardly looked through is just the same as a pat down and groping. YGTBSM

 

[mmx1]

I know it because the TSA would be shouting their victories from the rooftops. They are about as popular in the US as the Klan and Code Pink right now, and any successes that they had would be big news.

Really? The polls just before Thanksgiving showed that the majority of the public (who also don't fly) were supportive of the body scanners and other invasive security. Easy to advocate for ridiculous measures if it doesn't come off your back. Frequent travelers are quite up at arms....but they represent more of the "elite" than the rest of America.

I'm curious if holiday travel's shifted that perception.