TSA or T&A ???

[HercDriver]

I'll be sure to go tell my boss that I can't go on mission because I don't feel like getting my balls grabbed by some dude. I guess since I have fly commercially to do my job, then I'll just have to deal with having my balls played with.

To Herc, it's easy to sit back and say you would be cool with having your wife's body felt all up, with some pervert dude standing there watching, but it will be different once it does happen to her. Unless you don't give a shit, but not me. These guys are sticking bombs in their ass and getting through Saudi royalty security. So do we just accept anal probes too? We have to draw the line somewhere and I'd say that line is where if that TSA agent was just some guy on the street, and he felt me up, he goes to jail.

I agree something has to be done, but we could all be forced to strip down to our birthday suits and it won't stop these guys. We have to look at all of the factors like who is this guy, where is he from, then let TSA have their way with him. My wife though, she's off limits.

I said scan (as in the electronic scan), not having her felt up.

 

[pilot_man]

I said scan (as in the electronic scan), not having her felt up.

Like I said before, I got the feel up in uniform last week. They didn't have the new scanner and didn't like my baggy clothes, military officer clothes. The wife has gotten the grope twice in the last 6 months, just for the fun of it. Not because she was refusing the electronic scan.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

Ok, stupid question here. How many attacks on airlines since 9/11 have started on American soil?????

That said I think the beef up needs to start abroad, we can screen here and it still won't stop the terrorist coming from overseas. How many TSA agents are feeling up people entering the country!

I'm not saying we don't need to screen, but does it have to be so invasive?

 

[phrogdriver]

Am I a fucking exhibitionist or something? Because I fail to see what the big freaking deal is.

So somebody in a dark room sees an embarrassing picture of me or I get a pat-down. Not like that hasn't happened before!

Everyone's acting like the Pope just solicited a blow job or something.

TSA's customer service definitely needs a tune up, but honestly, what are they supposed to do? Everyone went apeshit over profiling, so this is what we're left with.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

Am I a fucking exhibitionist or something? Because I fail to see what the big freaking deal is.

So somebody in a dark room sees an embarrassing picture of me or I get a pat-down. Not like that hasn't happened before!

Everyone's acting like the Pope just solicited a blow job or something.

TSA's customer service definitely needs a tune up, but honestly, what are they supposed to do? Everyone went apeshit over profiling, so this is what we're left with.

My guess would be that it doesn't directly affect you, when it does your opinion about the pat-downs will change. Unless of course you like you and your family to be felt up by strangers. :icon_wink

 

[Ducky]

For all those defending the TSA and their methods on here: Please find me the article or story that talks about a TSA employee or policy that actually stopped a terrorist attack from happening. I bet you can't find it. Their methods are all reactive and after the fact. I would not mind giving up some privacy, if they would consider the total person walking through the screening. The terrorist will not necessarily be a man in a turbin screaming death to america, but it could be a teenager on a one way flight out of Yemen. The terrorist will not be the Catholic Nun or the 88 year old grandmother in a wheel chair. Profiling and common sense mixed with basic screening would do more than these advanced scanners could ever hope to achieve. If people saw more common sense applied things would run a little smoother.

 

[Clux4]

For all those defending the TSA and their methods on herelease find me the article or story that talks about a TSA employee or policy that actually stopped a terrorist attack from happening. I bet you can't find it. Their methods are all reactive and after the fact. I would not mind giving up some privacy, if they would consider the total person walking through the screening. The terrorist will not necessarily be a man in a turbin screaming death to america, but it could be a teenager on a one way flight out of Yemen. The terrorist will not be the Catholic Nun or the 88 year old grandmother in a wheel chair. Profiling and common sense mixed with basic screening would do more than these advanced scanners could ever hope to achieve. If people saw more common sense applied things would run a little smoother.

Your suggestion is weak. The enemy you are dealing with is also thinking. Ok, so the Catholic Nun is considered a non-threat or the 88 year old. Turn the map around for a second and ask yourself what you would do if you were the enemy and had that information. What stops a thinking enemy from dressing up a Jihad Jane as a Catholic Nun or a middle age woman as an 88 year old Caucasian lady. After all, the Chinese guy fooled security recently. The problem with many people like you on here and even the larger population is that you have never had to deal with threat and threat response. Some ideas are great until you start to delve into how it will all come together. Granted TSA is reactionary, but see how much grief they are getting for the little they are trying to do. Had TSA suggested a full body scan 5 years ago, they would have met the same level of resistance they are meeting today. The truth of the matter is that American's are whiny self serving bunch. They are only willing to implement changes if it will not impact them or their family. I don't think anyone at TSA derives any pleasure from looking at x-ray pictures or giving pat-downs for hundreds of people in an 8 hour work shift. No one is looking to take undue advantage of Americans but we have to make some effort and make things harder for the bastards trying to kill us.

You are looking for a news article to justify what? Do you know how much of the enemy's TTP that is now being affected by the recent development? There is more to this thing and I don't claim to know everything but it is not as simple as you or many others are trying to make it.

 

[Pariel]

Here's what confuses me: random patdowns.

Why have random patdowns if the scanner works? Less invasive, quicker, and requires less personnel. Given the quality of people working at TSA, I'd say that is a huge benefit.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Given TSA's ability to solve real problems in the past, I'm not exactly excited to give them free reign over anything. The problem at hand for TSA is, and has been, training personnel. If they want to continue using sub-par personnel in a law enforcement capacity, they're going to continue to face the backlash that they're seeing now. The issue is treating all passengers as criminals, and as a job rather than as other humans. Can I, or anyone else, tell a terrorist simply by looking at them? No. But I don't think that any children need to be patted down, either. Put 'em through a puffer machine, find a method that works. People without absolute authority find ways to make it work all the time. Case in point. It's about saving lives, not about invading them.

 

[gaijin6423]

By clux's argument, everyone, including my 1 1/2 year old daughter, is a terrorist. Because what's stopping them from getting a midget jihadist and making him up like a half puerto rican toddler. Oh, the horror...

Can't remember who said it, but they were right on the money in saying that if the shitheads make it to the airport, we have failed.

 

[Recovering LSO]

For all those defending the TSA and their methods on here: Please find me the article or story that talks about a TSA employee or policy that actually stopped a terrorist attack from happening. I bet you can't find it.

Find me the article that elaborates on how effective some of your tactics are? Oh, I have to go to the Top Gun manual for that? Right. I would hope that when they find something that works that they don't publish a front page article laying out the details.

This mess is the American public's fault. When "we" said that we were vehemently opposed to profiling this is what we were left with. Enjoy it.

@ Pilot_Man, why was your wife felt up in the general security area? She should have been taken to a private screening area, patted down by another woman and had a second woman standing by? If what you describe took place, they were wrong, procedurally.

This conversation will be moot in due time - as soon as another terrorist attack occurs the sophomoric American public will pull out their American flag lapel pins, their yellow-ribbon stickers for their cars, hug, cry and go to church together, hang flags from their houses, and gladly put up with airport security screening - the whole time shaking their fists asking "how did this happen?"

 

[Swanee]

TSA says the underwear bomber of DEC 2009(!) is why we have to be subject to such invasive scans and pat-downs. Does anyone see the problem here? That happened almost a year ago. What else has there been in the last year to warrant such procedures? TSA doesn't give a real reason, they just say "Trust us, it's for your own good." So we are supposed to trust the guy who makes less than a trash man, or who makes about the same as someone flipping burgers to handle images of not only ourselves, but of children? We are supposed to trust people who have to idea of who anyone walking through the gate is. Right, let me search a military officer, who has sworn to protect and defend the constitution, and has done more for combating terrorism than any TSA agent ever has. We are supposed to trust someone who has no common sense, who is working for TSA because they probably couldn't get a job somewhere else...

If TSA had better customer relations, stopped treating passengers like criminals, showed some compassion, and stopped hiring the dregs of society and stopped hiring people who clearly could do absolutely NOTHING if someone tried to run through security, then I would be more inclined to trust them. Hell, I'd put up with longer lines at security check points if they made TSA a legit branch of Federal Law Enforcement and all of their agents had to go through an academy of sorts.

 

[ryan1234]

What stops a thinking enemy from dressing up a Jihad Jane as a Catholic Nun or a middle age woman as an 88 year old Caucasian lady.

Those bastards are smart - I think a lot of Americans tend to underestimate in that regard. All the same I don't think that the TSA is really what they should be - for the most part, they just are not a legit security organization nor do they come off that way. I have personally, and quite on accident (left ammo in my flight bag in a pocket from the range), managed to get ammo through about 10 airport security checkpoints. Searches and scans are small potatoes - any thinking enemy can find away around them or target another vunerable area. Pretty much anyone can walk into an airport and blow it to bits without the hint of security prior to entry. The biggest improvement, IMHO, to airline security was the armored cockpit - but all the same there's about a million ways to kill a mass amount of people.

Hell, I'd put up with longer lines at security check points if they made TSA a legit branch of Federal Law Enforcement and all of their agents had to go through an academy of sorts.

Absolutely - or even if TSA was at least skilled in being able to look at a bigger picture ala Israeli airport security.

 

[Mumbles]

this pretty much sums it up....

http://fuckthetsa.com/

 

[HAL Pilot]

 

[Flash]

For all those defending the TSA and their methods on here: Please find me the article or story that talks about a TSA employee or policy that actually stopped a terrorist attack from happening. I bet you can't find it.

Believe it or not a large part of a successful 'force protection' plan is to make yourself as hard a target as you can, discouraging attacks from being planned in the first place. While I know of no specific examples for TSA there have been numerous times terrorists have not attacked a target due to it being a 'hard target'.

Their methods are all reactive and after the fact. I would not mind giving up some privacy, if they would consider the total person walking through the screening. The terrorist will not necessarily be a man in a turbin screaming death to america, but it could be a teenager on a one way flight out of Yemen. The terrorist will not be the Catholic Nun or the 88 year old grandmother in a wheel chair. Profiling and common sense mixed with basic screening would do more than these advanced scanners could ever hope to achieve. If people saw more common sense applied things would run a little smoother.

Frankly we don't know who will be the next attacker. There have also been instances where someone was an unwitting accomplice to a terrorists attack, sometimes through a romantic entanglement and in a few cases because they simply lacked mental capacity and didn't comprehend their actions. If a 'hole' in security becomes known terrorists will try and exploit it. Don't inspect kids or Grandma, strap some explosives on 'em if they can.

Like I said before, I got the feel up in uniform last week. They didn't have the new scanner and didn't like my baggy clothes, military officer clothes. The wife has gotten the grope twice in the last 6 months, just for the fun of it. Not because she was refusing the electronic scan.

As history has demonstrated repeatedly, it is not unknown for members of the military to commit attacks on their fellow citizens.

......Absolutely - or even if TSA was at least skilled in being able to look at a bigger picture ala Israeli airport security.

Again, a system that has a single major international airport to worry about vs. one that has well over 100, not really a realistic comparison.