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Treatment of NFOs in the fleet

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kmac

kmac

Coffee Drinker
pilot
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Goober and gang-
What's going to happen when an E2 has a (lacking the proper word here) mission operator up in the front? Is that going to be filled by a pilot or an NFO? Ooh scary thoughts either way. ;) Since I obviously can only relate to the front end, I wonder what kind of cross-training knowledge would be required? Perhaps similiar to an S-3? Please do tell...
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
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Brett327 said:
I heard you guys can assign a specific radio to either the left or right audio channel in your helmet. Any truth to that or is that just RR scuttlebutt?

Brett
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EP-3's can do that, I loved it! I hated having to go from that to the Prowler and the wonderful radio setup we had, which in comparison sucked.
 
Brett327

Brett327

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Flash said:
EP-3's can do that, I loved it! I hated having to go from that to the Prowler and the wonderful radio setup we had, which in comparison sucked.
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Does that mean you could have a beep in one ear and a squeek in another? Ahh, EW nerd nirvana! :)

Brett

P.S. UI, I teared up a little as I read your last post. ;)
 
H60Gunr

H60Gunr

Registered User
As helo guys we don't have NFO's but you would be hard pressed to find a helo guy who didn't have a lot of respect for his enlisted crewmen. I never looked down on my crewmen because they were "just E's". Every member of the crew is important. Even single seat guys need help from someone. Anyone who treats their crew members, E's or O's, like a piece of **** is probably one themselves.

Dusty
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In total agreement.
 
T-man

T-man

Registered User
Schnuggapup said:
That's because helos are extra hard to fly and require two pilots...unlike an F/A-18 which is easy and only needs one pilot?

r/
G
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I don't doubt that a helo is harder to keep in the air than a fixed wing, but I don't believe that's the sole reason. That's of course nothing against fixed wing, lets face it, flying in general is a difficult job.

For attack helos, it is my understanding that front seat has more of an NFO/weapons officer type role. The way I personally have rationalized having 2 pilots in helos is the fact that you can't eject, so if one pilot gets incapacitated, the other can (hopefully) fly the bird home or at least soften the crash landing. Whether or not the is the true reason, I have no idea, it's just one of the major reasons I've been able to come up with in my own thoughts.

Then again, I'm a lowly wanabe so I won't claim to know anything ;)
 
skidkid

skidkid

CAS Czar
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The front seat guy in a Cobra is running weapons in the objective areabut he is the guy that lands in the dark scary dusty FARPS and has an esier time landing at the boatbeasuse he can see better than the rear seat guy. It doesnt matter what you are flying it takes two pilots to effectively fight a helicopter. The Russian tried single seat with the Hokum and noone bought it becasue the pilot workload is too high.
 
DairyCreamer

DairyCreamer

Registered User
Goober said:
Agreed. Nothing like putting a non E-2 pilot in the back of a Hummer and watching his brain melt in the first two minutes as all the tracks get generated. That's usually when I start looking for my sandwich. Not long before they want to go back up front where it's "simple." We're generally fairly amused. :) "You guys have more than 2 radios?"
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What % get E-2s?! :icon_tong

Yay radar tracking...

~Nate
 
Goober

Goober

Professional Javelin Catcher
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kmac said:
Goober and gang-
What's going to happen when an E2 has a (lacking the proper word here) mission operator up in the front? Is that going to be filled by a pilot or an NFO? Ooh scary thoughts either way. ;) Since I obviously can only relate to the front end, I wonder what kind of cross-training knowledge would be required? Perhaps similiar to an S-3? Please do tell...
Click to expand...
Not sure yet. We don't know if they plan/intend on removing the CP's yoke and making it all systems or what. Honestly, I like having two pilots up front. This thing's b*tch enough trying to land sometimes. I like to think there's as much help going on up there as possible. You wann fly in the back w/ the only thing between you and sure and swift death being a 3P?

That said, they're still not sure what kind of layout the "4th operator" will have and whether it'll be a single-anchor or a double. When I was an S-3 aircrewman, our pilots would go through ISAR interpretation training with us, but they weren't proficient by any stretch (nor were our NFOs), nor were either evaluated on performance. Anyone's guess I suppose, but I'm sure they'll pick the design that makes the least amount of sense. :)
 
DairyCreamer

DairyCreamer

Registered User
Fly Navy said:
Are you even an SNA?
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Neg, not even selected yet.

While the question/comment was surely tongue-in-cheek, I am a little curious about how many get E-2s if they go NFO. :)

~Nate
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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skidkid said:
It doesnt matter what you are flying it takes two pilots to effectively fight a helicopter. The Russian tried single seat with the Hokum and noone bought it becasue the pilot workload is too high.
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There was serious talk about a NFO in the SH-60 when it frist came around. Talk was that the aircraft was eaier to fly then the SH-2 and there would be a greater mission orientation for the copilot, so turn him into a NFO. The VS community did that when it went from S-2 to S-3. Of course the HSL NFO never happened and it seems that was the right path. I expect you will see helo NFOs as technology develops to the point that the work load of a helo pilot is reduced to where he can get by with someone simply monitoring the flying and working the comms for him while concentrating fully on the mission, ie NFO.

BTW, add my name to the list of NFOs that never felt like a second class citizen. I'm sure the NFO dominance of the mission drives some of that. But I wonder if it is a TACAIR thing, inspite of the big heads of many ointy nose pilots.
 
H60Gunr

H60Gunr

Registered User
Mr. Wink,
You actually think in the future, NFO's and AW's will be integrated in the back for all mission essential activities?
 
handjive

handjive

Blue speedo... check!
pilot
Out of curiosity, are the S-3, Prowler, and soon to be E-2 (I guess) considered "single-piloted aircraft" for approach limitations, etc.?
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
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handjive said:
Out of curiosity, are the S-3, Prowler, and soon to be E-2 (I guess) considered "single-piloted aircraft" for approach limitations, etc.?
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The Prowler is considered "dual-piloted."

Brett
 
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