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USMC Too many aircraft in the Marine Corps?

sevenhelmet

Will fly for food
pilot
The bit about long-term readiness suffering in a world of CRs is 100% true. But saying the force has "too many airplanes" because of budgetary shortfalls is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Hardly surprising, then, that the USMC is losing so many of its top-tier pilots. The USN looks a lot like the USMC did 3 years ago. Are we headed down that same road?
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
The Commandant is right, to a point. There is a ridiculous backlog of birds at PMI, especially F/A-18s. There's a good number that could probably be turned into parts bins to enhance the readiness of those remaining.

That said, the PAA issue is extremely nuanced. This reads of him getting a .ppt brief that week with a couple of BLUF bullets that he took into this press engagement without much of the underlying analysis.
 

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
Kind of goes along the lines of a brief that a large USMC Hornet ready room received where a general with a helo background was heard to say "the AMRAAM is the biggest problem facing Marine TACAIR."
 

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
Context please.
Without going into details, it was a completely absurd statement based on a single capability showing the individual had no idea what he was talking about, likely indicating he was only reciting a useless bullet point he had seen to a room full of aviators who have spent countless hours and effort studying and executing Air-to-Air tactics. Oversimplifying something to the point of making it completely incorrect.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
Without going into details, it was a completely absurd statement based on a single capability showing the individual had no idea what he was talking about, likely indicating he was only reciting a useless bullet point he had seen to a room full of aviators who have spent countless hours and effort studying and executing Air-to-Air tactics. Oversimplifying something to the point of making it completely incorrect.
Did you have the cajones to stand up and give him a counterpoint or question about the bigger challenges you see in Marine TACAIR?
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
With all due respect to decorum and the General's staff's job, the General's job is to be right and to win, not to push wrong ideas that came from the staff and get congenial nods from a room full of commissioned officers.

Decorum, letting the staff do its job, and "letting the process work as its designed" have got us a bunch of little train wrecks that have turned into big train wrecks: the topic at hand for this thread, 7th Fleet ships that keep hitting stuff (and now they can't respond to national tasking from dry dock), the task force for OBOGS and pilots who can't breathe good...
 

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
Did you have the cajones to stand up and give him a counterpoint or question about the bigger challenges you see in Marine TACAIR?
If he had asked, every person in that room would have told him the bigger problems facing the Marine Corps TACAIR community and why manning at the O-3 level is at or below 50%, the reason you can't get anyone to go back to the fleet forces, and why you have every guy who has wanted to do this since they were children, the best job in the world, quitting left and right.

But no, I did not stand up and tell the General how the statement was completely incorrect and made him sound foolish in front of a room full of experts.

With all due respect to decorum and the General's staff's job, the General's job is to be right and to win, not to push wrong ideas that came from the staff and get congenial nods from a room full of commissioned officers.

Decorum, letting the staff do its job, and "letting the process work as its designed" have got us a bunch of little train wrecks that have turned into big train wrecks: the topic at hand for this thread, 7th Fleet ships that keep hitting stuff (and now they can't respond to national tasking from dry dock), the task force for OBOGS and pilots who can't breathe good...
Someone should have pulled an aide aside and mentioned why the statement was wrong, in hindsight. But at this point, it doesn't really even matter.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
With all due respect to decorum and the General's staff's job, the General's job is to be right and to win, not to push wrong ideas that came from the staff and get congenial nods from a room full of commissioned officers.

Decorum, letting the staff do its job, and "letting the process work as its designed" have got us a bunch of little train wrecks that have turned into big train wrecks: the topic at hand for this thread, 7th Fleet ships that keep hitting stuff (and now they can't respond to national tasking from dry dock), the task force for OBOGS and pilots who can't breathe good...
And JOs calling out and embarrassing GOFOs in a public speech does precisely dick to fix any of this. All it gets is a JO shot in the face for no gain. Come on; you’ve been around awhile.
Someone should have pulled an aide aside and mentioned why the statement was wrong, in hindsight. But at this point, it doesn't really even matter.
This would have been the correct way to handle things if it’s that big a deal. Make a lateral entry into the staff at the JO/action officer level. Or get a little top cover and go at the O5/O6 level. Either way, find out via a little networking who’s feeding the GOFO shitty gouge.

Sometimes one opinionated loudmouth in the wrong place on a staff who thinks he/she knows what they’re talking about can cause all manner of pain, difficulty, and workarounds trying to fix their ill-informed shit. Speaking from personal experience.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I respect all of your opinions about when it is proper to follow protocol and the correct way to speak truth to power in today's environment.

I am going to thread bump this discussion q year from now to see if my opinions or anyone else's have changed with the benefit of hindsight.

:thumbup:
 

Python1287

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
And JOs calling out and embarrassing GOFOs in a public speech does precisely dick to fix any of this. All it gets is a JO shot in the face for no gain. Come on; you’ve been around awhile.
This would have been the correct way to handle things if it’s that big a deal. Make a lateral entry into the staff at the JO/action officer level. Or get a little top cover and go at the O5/O6 level. Either way, find out via a little networking who’s feeding the GOFO shitty gouge.

Sometimes one opinionated loudmouth in the wrong place on a staff who thinks he/she knows what they’re talking about can cause all manner of pain, difficulty, and workarounds trying to fix their ill-informed shit. Speaking from personal experience.
@BarrettRC8 perhaps now there’s still a chance to follow up with an aide via email if you can track it down? Better to do something than nothing, and better late than never.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
And JOs calling out and embarrassing GOFOs in a public speech does precisely dick to fix any of this.
That’s the General’s staff’s job. Being called out by a random JO when making a speech to the troops is not always the best way to influence senior leadership.
Well, I didn’t mean to cause a sideshow...

Directly communicating a question tactfully via an open Q&A forum during a roadshow has never been discouraged from the commands I have been a part of when it was appropriate.

In my opinion, condescending a General Officer on an internet forum with out having the balls to ask him a question in person about manning issues is cowardice. I understand your points of view, but either state your questions or forever hold your peace.
 
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