The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

[DukeAndrewJ]

I don't know how you could possibly tell the amount of people who are opposed to the bill. Are you a psychic? I mean, how do you expect me to take you at your word without substantiating evidence. Talking to like minded antagonist of the healthcare bill like yourself is probably giving you a wrong impression.

Not psychic. But every opinion poll I have seen in the last several months has indicated a lack of majority support. I posted links above to an article mentioning both Gallup and Quinnipiac polls. Brett correctly pointed out that we have not seen the final bill yet, so maybe what actually comes out will be more popular, but we probably won't see it until it's been voted on anyway.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704254604574614183270356274.html

In the State of Virginia and probably every other state in the country, you are required to have an insurance or you pay a fee mandated by the state(uninsured motorist). Insurance companies set their prices and we are at their mercy. Yes, you are not forced to pay if you do not own a car.

Yes you are 'at the mercy' of the insurance companies, but at least you can choose which policy to buy. Reid et al would like to regulate what plans must cover. In order to pay for increased number of people covered young healthy people like me will (probably) have to buy pricier plans than are needed. Perhaps I am wrong about this as the result though.

But in the case of healthcare, persons without insurance will become a burden on the society as it is already the case. Who should pay off the bills of those individuals that are uninsured and unable to pay? Remember that they do not have an insurance, so they are paying their bills at full value.

This is a good point. I do agree that we should make more efforts to lower the cost of healthcare to make it available to more individuals with lower incomes. I think we just disagree on the best methods to go about doing this. I would prefer to see less intrusive steps taken; primarily, allowing the sale of insurance across state lines, and providing private individuals with the same tax benefits regarding health insurance plans that people get through employer-based insurance plans.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

The latest of every major poll (Quinnipiac, CNN, Rasmussen, ABC, NBC, AP, Gallup, Pew, FOX) shows a majority of people opposed to the bill. If you weren't already aware of that, you haven't been paying attention.

Oh, I'm sure Clux is quite aware. But clearly those polls consist of only the looney right wing kooks.

 

[jtmedli]

In the State of Virginia and probably every other state in the country, you are required to have an insurance or you pay a fee mandated by the state(uninsured motorist). Insurance companies set their prices and we are at their mercy. Yes, you are not forced to pay if you do not own a car.

But in the case of healthcare, persons without insurance will become a burden on the society as it is already the case. Who should pay off the bills of those individuals that are uninsured and unable to pay? Remember that they do not have an insurance, so they are paying their bills at full value.

You're missing the point again. Yes you're required to have car insurance, but you're allowed to choose what policy, company, and even allowed to choose whether or not to own a vehicle. With this bill, choice is no longer on the table. You're required to have a policy simply because you exist. Sorry, but that doesn't exactly ring the bell of freedom in my ear.

As far as 'burdens to society' go: I'd much rather have few small burdens to pay for than be force fed the burden of the entire society.

 

[Clux4]

Burden to society?
So if their bill is paid by one group of people (the taxpayers) they are a burden, but if their bill is paid by another group of people (the fellow insured) they are no longer a burden? And the solution to this is to force everyone to buy insurance?

What are you talking about? What gives you the impression that taxes will go towards paying health insurance. Two different things. Everyone pays for their own insurance.

@Exhelodrvr: The polls are not exactly a fantastic tool. They don't tell you much in my opinion. I don't believe that the majority of people sampled in these polls are in the same class as the majority that would be affected by this policy. Everyone agrees there is need for reform but I don't believe the majority of Americans understand the underlying issues.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I don't believe that the majority of people sampled in these polls are in the same class as the majority that would be affected by this policy.

Ok, since you brought it up, who WOULDN'T be affected by this policy.

Everyone agrees there is need for reform but I don't believe the majority of Americans understand the underlying issues.

If the majority of Americans don't understand the underlying issues, then how can they agree that there is need for reform? Furthermore, how do you know either? You've already said you don't give much credence to the polls.

 

[HeyJoe]

Senate passed Healthcare Bill early Christmas Eve morning

Healthcare Bill passed by Senate. Guess they wanted to get home for the holidays.

 

[exhelodrvr]

@Exhelodrvr: The polls are not exactly a fantastic tool. They don't tell you much in my opinion. I don't believe that the majority of people sampled in these polls are in the same class as the majority that would be affected by this policy. Everyone agrees there is need for reform but I don't believe the majority of Americans understand the underlying issues.

The people who design the polls make a significant attempt to get an accurate cross-section of the populace. It varies from poll-to-poll if they are sampling likely voters or just adults (i.e. some segments of the populace are less likely to vote). That information is available.

If you look at one individual poll, it can be misleading. If you look at that poll over a period of time, it will fairly accurately show the trends. And when EVERY POLL shows the majority taking one side of an issue, with the trends for EVERY POLL going the same direction, you can be pretty confident in it's accuracy. It's quite clear that the American people have lost confidence in the combined competence of this administration and this congress to design and implement a goof health care plan of this magnitude.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

So, did anybody get a chance to read the Senate's version of the bill?

 

[flynsail]

This question may have already been answered, but I haven't read the other 580 posts.

How will this affect military members and their dependents? Will we still be required to buy this health insurance? It would be great if they have stipulations for this in the bill.

 

[NUFO06]

I have heard there are many versions of the bill, one of the bills saying military will still have Tricare, but there is another version of the bill that gets rid of Tricare all together and puts are families in the public option, but the Senate bill has no public option. If this was not a corrupt congress then we would have time to read the bill and debate its points.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Your point 1) Of course it will raise taxes and needs to be well organized. We could start by managing pharmaceuticals and their outrageous prices. Not everything needs to be for profit, and healthcare is one area where profits should not be a factor.

I take it you are in favor of cutting way back on doctors' incomes, then. To make it fair, the government could pay for med school and malpractice insurance, and then just give the doctors a minimum wage.

And significantly limiting malpractice suits, so that lawyers stop profiting off of healthcare.

 

[Flash]

This question may have already been answered, but I haven't read the other 580 posts.

How will this affect military members and their dependents? Will we still be required to buy this health insurance? It would be great if they have stipulations for this in the bill.

Nothing I have seen changes any health care plan for federal employees, including TRICARE. The President has explicitly said as much.

I have heard there are many versions of the bill, one of the bills saying military will still have Tricare, but there is another version of the bill that gets rid of Tricare all together and puts are families in the public option, but the Senate bill has no public option. If this was not a corrupt congress then we would have time to read the bill and debate its points.

There may have been a proposal or two, and not a serious one, that proposes as much but I am pretty certain it never made it into a bill that was seriously considered. What you may be thinking of was a proposal for members Congress to be forced to take the public option, if there was one, instead of the government employee plan they are in now, which some proposed opening to everyone.

And corrupt? Taking it a bit far, aren't you?

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

Wow. This thread is one of the very few times that I actually feel apologetic.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

I don't think the two houses will be able to come up with a compromise bill that they'll both pass.

 

[flynsail]

Nothing I have seen changes any health care plan for federal employees, including TRICARE. The President has explicitly said as much.

Thanks for the info! Hope it stays that way.