The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

[QuagmireMcGuire]

Oh dear God, Miss America. You DO derive self-satisfaction from it whether you want to admit it's diminishing painful looks or not. Otherwise you wouldn't do it. It's human nature to do things that make us feel good.




Good grief. Tell me those who would have above the government minimum if this were the case...it's nightmarish to consider we let enough people into this country who don't pay taxes or even have a damn Social Security Number and then expect them to actually pay for what they deserve...




As we all do. Is it so wrong to expect them to come to your rescue...what the hell is so wrong with you that you've made a risk decision and then don't want to accept the consequences of said decision.

How old are you? This is like arguing with my wife...sometimes she just dosn't want to think logically...

So, you are saying that I should never enjoy the benefits and the pleasures of the ocean because I can't swim? (I do know how to swim.) If someone is drowning, isn't there a basic human emotion or quality which spurs you to act simply because your fellow man is in trouble?

Unforseeable emergencies arise that catch us all unawares at times. When it comes to your health, no one should ever have to worry that their health care needs will not be met when an emergency does arise.

 

[ChunksJR]

First, please don't ever call me Junior again.

Second, your posting of information does nothing to negate my point. I stated we have the lowest of infant mortality and life expectancy rate (Ireland scores lower on this one) in comparison with other industrialized countries:

US 6.4

UK 5.0

Japan 3.2

Canada 4.6

Ireland 5.2

Italy 5.7

Switzerland 4.3

France 4.2

Life Expectancy:

US 78.0

UK 78.7

Japan 81.4

Canada 80.3

Ireland 77.9

Italy 79.9

Switzerland 80.6

France 79.9

All of these numbers taken from your link, notice how the US is behind the UK, France, and Japan in regards to infant mortality. In case you don't understand what it is saying, it means that out of every thousand births, 6.4 American children die in comparison to only 5.2 in the UK.

So before you continue with your self-congralutory tone, perhaps you should regroup and introduce something new.

Well, I will continue with my self-congralutory (is that a word?) tone, because I'm better than you...and because I don't want to live anywhere else...I've been to a lot of those places and coming home only re-enforces the fact that this is the greatest country on earth.

The amount I drink means I won't even COME CLOSE to that life-expectancy...so I don't give a damn. I wasn't trying to disprove you...just showing the ridiculous overinflation of stats that serves to prove opinions...

Sorry about the jr comment, I figured with your inability to follow simple logic you were either 1) younger or 2) my wife...which she hates this website so I figured you were the latter.

 

[red_ryder]

This is not like "saving people who were in a car accident". This is like saying someone shot themselves and now you have to go pay their hospital bill. TONS of lifestyle choices are directly related to health; smoking, eating habits, activity...

Now, while I'll fiercely defend your right to smoke, eat a greasy burger, and sit around staring at the tube all day, don't expect me to foot your bill for all that when it comes time to pay the piper. This is supposed to be the land of the free. You free to do whatever, me free from paying for it.

 

[Tactical387]

Okay stats bubba, how much of that is on "elective surgery"?
translation...boob jobs.

Next.

None. Thats taken into account. but thanks for trying. That type of surgery is not considered "health care" and is therefore not included in the statistic. Much of the difference comes from the enormous prices that we pay for prescriptions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

 

[Swanee]

So does anyone care to tell me how Tricare is not a state supported health care system?

I think it's interesting that many of you who are arguing about how to not go to socialized health care are actually part of a social health care provider (granted they provide for the military, retirees and dependents, but that's more than a few million people). Remember that next time you stop by the clinic. Hell you are covered even if you go off base, you just have to pay your deductible.

 

[ChunksJR]

So, you are saying that I should never enjoy the benefits and the pleasures of the ocean because I can't swim?

Unless suicidal....Yes.

(I do know how to swim.)

Good. Enjoy the ocean. Don't enjoy it drunk or "accidentally" fall in, because that would be a choice that MAY result death.

If someone is drowning, isn't there a basic human emotion or quality which spurs you to act simply because your fellow man is in trouble?

Sure, and that's my choice, not my government's choice to help.

Unforseeable emergencies arise that catch us all unawares at times.

Yes, hence the word "unforseeable"

When it comes to your health, no one should ever have to worry that their health care needs will not be met when an emergency does arise.

Than be prepared to pay for it, because I sure as hell don't want to. I have my own "unforseeable" events to worry about. Why should I have to worry about your's too?

Oh, but if I see you drowning and I am not drowning as well, I'll be happy to help you.

 

[Tactical387]

Are you serious? I guess by better you mean "more shitty".

Im not saying that these sytems are perfect, just that they are socialized. Everyone has equal opportunities to them - isnt that what america is all about? Besides that, if you get into a horrible wreck and are pulled out by the city fire-rescue team, I bet you wont be complaining at what a horrible job they do. Or tell the ambulance driver that you should not have to pay for everyone else's mistakes.

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

Well, I will continue with my self-congralutory (is that a word?) tone, because I'm better than you...and because I don't want to live anywhere else...I've been to a lot of those places and coming home only re-enforces the fact that this is the greatest country on earth.

The amount I drink means I won't even COME CLOSE to that life-expectancy...so I don't give a damn. I wasn't trying to disprove you...just showing the ridiculous overinflation of stats that serves to prove opinions...

Sorry about the jr comment, I figured with your inability to follow simple logic you were either 1) younger or 2) my wife...which she hates this website so I figured you were the latter.

Aww hell, it is a word. I just spelled it wrong. Congratulatory.

And you aren't better than me unless you can run faster, have fuller hair, can dance, and have fresh breathe when you wake. The mere fact that you are still alive reflects the very generous nature of your wife because if my husband utter the words "honey, you are being illogical", I guaran-dayum-tee his ass would be meeting his face.:icon_smil:icon_tong (In case the smilies aren't any indication, I'm teasing.)

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm exhausted. You men have worn my feeble, female mind out for the time being.

 

[Hozer]

So does anyone care to tell me how Tricare is not a state supported health care system?

My Tricare bill says Humana on it. What does yours say?

Quote:
It is prudent to note that the United States spends about 40 percent more per capita than the most expensive European countries with socialized health care.

Okay stats bubba, how much of that is on "elective surgery"?
translation...boob jobs.

Next.

What's your stats source then?

 

[Swanee]

This is not like "saving people who were in a car accident". This is like saying someone shot themselves and now you have to go pay their hospital bill. TONS of lifestyle choices are directly related to health; smoking, eating habits, activity...

Now, while I'll fiercely defend your right to smoke, eat a greasy burger, and sit around staring at the tube all day, don't expect me to foot your bill for all that when it comes time to pay the piper. This is supposed to be the land of the free. You free to do whatever, me free from paying for it.

Now wait. If you get on a motorcycle and don't wear full protective gear many insurance companies won't pay. What's wrong with that? If we have a UHS, it won't come without limits. You are still responsible for your own actions, and those actions may cause you to lose your coverage. What's wrong with the government doing the same thing in a UHS? You were stupid, now you have to pay. IF you can't pay and you were stupid, well your stupidity may lead to your death. Deal with it. I have a John Wayne poster that reads," Life is tough; it's tougher when you're stupid."

 

[FLYTPAY]

All of these numbers taken from your link, notice how the US is behind the UK, France, and Japan in regards to infant mortality. In case you don't understand what it is saying, it means that out of every thousand births, 6.4 American children die in comparison to only 5.2 in the UK.

Maybe the UK doesn't have the meth/crack babies that are being born here. What you need to look at is WHY the kids are dying! Hint, it's not during the delivery. The problem starts with the parents and their habits.

Oh dear God, Miss America.

"I Believe... U.S. Americans....should have maps....of the Iraq and the South Africa"

This is like arguing with my wife...sometimes she just dosn't want to think logically...

Why did God give wives the ability to speak their mind yet no logic to go with it?

 

[ChunksJR]

And you aren't better than me unless you can run faster, have fuller hair, can dance, and have fresh breathe when you wake.

Definitety not better than you. Although I can dance.

The mere fact that you are still alive reflects the very generous nature of your wife because if my husband utter the words "honey, you are being illogical", I guaran-dayum-tee his ass would be meeting his face.:icon_smil:icon_tong (In case the smilies aren't any indication, I'm teasing.)

I have uttered those words. And they didn't "fix" the situation despite the truth to those words. So much for being honest in a marriage...

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm exhausted. You men have worn my feeble, female mind out for the time being.

Agreed...and now I know why I can't disuade you. It's the logic thing...and the natural ability of estrogen to block all reasoning when passionatly arguing something they feel is important.

 

[Hozer]

a breast augmentation averages $3,600, a breast lift is about $4,200, and a tummy tuck about $5,000

http://www.newsweek.com/id/78042?GT1=10645

God Bless American Health Care.

 

[BACONATOR]

Definitety not better than you. Although I can dance.




I have uttered those words. And they didn't "fix" the situation despite the truth to those words. So much for being honest in a marriage...



Agreed...and now I know why I can't disuade you. It's the logic thing...and the natural ability of estrogen to block all reasoning when passionatly arguing something they feel is important.

I think it was "As Good As It Gets" Where Jack Nicholson's character writes books (mainly women protagonists). My favorite quote is the following:

Secretary: How do you write women so well?
Melvin: I think of a man, and then I take away reason and accountability.

 

[ftrooper]

So does anyone care to tell me how Tricare is not a state supported health care system?

I think it's interesting that many of you who are arguing about how to not go to socialized health care are actually part of a social health care provider (granted they provide for the military, retirees and dependents, but that's more than a few million people). Remember that next time you stop by the clinic. Hell you are covered even if you go off base, you just have to pay your deductible.

You mean the next time I stop in at the aid station here in deployed-land? Thats why Tricare exists, because the military by nature is an extremely hazardous profession to be in. And since all those doctors, nurses, specialists, corpsman, etc have to exist in order to take care of you while deployed, plus provide services no civilian docs can (military flight physicals, for example) and they have proficiency requirements just like everyone else, they get to work when they're at home, too. So, while they're working when they're home, they treat military and dependant patients. Hence, Tricare. Otherwise, they'd just sit around and we'd have all these docs, and nothing for them to do.