The great NWU's

[MasterBates]

I've had 50-50 shirts melt to my skin in a fire. The few unlucky ones here who have seen me shirtless at Swim Phys can attest to the fact that a good chunk of my body has been prepared extra tasty-crispy like Popeye's Chicken.

It's not fun. And it only took sparks from welding to catch the shirt on fire.

100% cotton, Nomex, or Wool. Nothing else (save other FR materials) should be acceptable.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Remember it took the USS STARK getting hit by a missile before the Navy figured out that wearing 100% polyester clothes (CNT) and plastic shoes (corframs) was a bad idea. So the fact the Uniform Board didn't worry about this (too focused on SDK and CPO cutlass) that it shouldn't surprise anyone.

Remind me again who comprises the uniform board? When was the last time they were at sea/operational? On this board, what's the ratio of common sense using aviators to retired MCPOs who think the anti-christ wears a nomex jacket?

 

[squeeze]

Um... hi. We (USMC) figured this out back in 2006 with MARPAT. You know, FROG suits (Flame Resistant Organizational Gear).

 

[scoober78]

Just an interesting data point here...The US CFR discussing textile flammability:

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title16/16-2.0.1.4.68.html#16:2.0.1.4.68.3.2.3

Pay particular attention to the Purpose/Scope/Method of test sections...

Seems to me that the uniform board chose a Class 1 fabric and nothing more. The question then becomes, is this appropriate for the shipboard environment? I tend to think that the answer to that is no, but, that is clearly open for discussion.

 

[Recovering LSO]

What was important was to ensure the "Everyone is a Warrior" brain-washing continued - what better way to do that than to wear camouflage?

"Kill! Kill! Kill! Away the Sea and Anchor Detail. Kill! Sweepers, Sweepers, Man your....Er... Kill!"

Let's put the decision to come up with some piece of shit blue digi-cam uniform for us squids right next to the whole IA/GSA idea... "We've GOT to get into this fight - we can't be left behind... We must prove our relevance.... Blue camouflage should do the trick...."

//end cynicism//

 

[Catmando]

Shit like this just burns my ass!

 

[scoober78]

Further information:

Electrical workers are required to wear "flame resistant clothing" per

ASTM’s F1506-98​

found here. Are EM's, ET's etc...issued a different version of the NWU? I think not.

"Industrial workers", of which damn near every sailor, and certainly every engineering rate is one....are required to wear clothing conforming to NFPA 2112-XX. Certainly no special NWU's for them.

The test quoted says that it took a direct flame to each service's fabric for 12 seconds, which melted the NWU and charred the other two.

This information by itself is useless...when assessing flammability or protection provided by a fabric "a flame" doesn't mean anything. You have to start referring to heat flux per unit area etc...or have some other sort of standard flame and test procedure (see CFR) in order to adequately assess any of this. You cannot just try to set something on fire and call it useful data or an "adequate test". See this link for some idea of the scope of this testing.

 

[KBayDog]

//end cynicism//

Never.

 

[SkywardET]

This information by itself is useless...when assessing flammability or protection provided by a fabric "a flame" doesn't mean anything. You have to start referring to heat flux per unit area etc...or have some other sort of standard flame and test procedure (see CFR) in order to adequately assess any of this. You cannot just try to set something on fire and call it useful data or an "adequate test". See this link for some idea of the scope of this testing.

As if the Navy Times or 99% of its readers would be able to interpret heat flux per unit area. Which CO got fired in that edition? What's going to happen with base pay next year?

 

[Renegade One]

It is service-wide catastrophe...

I do not think this word means what you think it means...

 

[scoober78]

I do not think this word means what you think it means...

I'm halfway through learning how to drop bombs...call it a double pickle and cut me some slack Sir?

 

[snake020]

Remind me again who comprises the uniform board? When was the last time they were at sea/operational? On this board, what's the ratio of common sense using aviators to retired MCPOs who think the anti-christ wears a nomex jacket?

It's not very transparent who is making the decision on uniforms is it? The only consistency I've seen is former Master Chief Robert Carroll was appointed to Task Force Uniform by the CNO back in '06 at the beginning of this NWU debacle, only to slide into a similar role post retirement as Head of Navy Uniform Matters, Mr. Robert Carroll. His name is at the bottom of every uniform related NAVADMIN going back to his appointment. I suspect he's also the driving force behind the demise of the ballcap. Seems like if anyone should take the fall it's this guy, but since he's a civilian now, I don't expect there to be any accountability.

 

[C420sailor]

Everyone was wearing NWUs under their FFEs.

The test quoted says that it took a direct flame to each service's fabric for 12 seconds, which melted the NWU and charred the other two.

So I suppose if someone were to stand in the fire without FFEs, the NWUs might have melted, but then you have to ask yourself why someone would do such a silly thing. I doubt that standing 4-6' away and putting a fire extinguisher on a small fire that just started is going to cause the NWU to melt to anyone's skin, and if that fails you send personnel in FFEs to fight the fire.

There is the whole battle-damage possibility, but it's likewise hard to imagine someone who survives a hit to the ship but instantaneously finds himself in the middle of a blaze that melts his uniform to his skin. I'd like to hear the voices of experience to know if that's how it actually happened.

I hate the NWU as much as the next guy. I'm just pointing out that the only real-life scenario that occured doesn't support the study.

I'm sure synthetics would be fine under bunker gear 95% of the time. God knows I've crawled down a hallway or two with lacrosse shorts or track pants on under my gear. But what about when a room flashes over on you? Or when your nozzleman accidentally opens up with a fog pattern and steams the shit out of you? That is when you'll thank god that your undergarments aren't polyester or nylon.

 

[LFDtoUSMC]

C420 speaks the truth.

Though I will admit that I know shipboard firefighting is much different that structural firefighting. The whole metal box acting like an oven and such.

About 10 years ago at work they bought and made everybody wear Nomex pants (FireWear, I think) all the time. But with a 70/30ish polyester/cotton t shirt (it was cheap). Because that made a lot of sense.

Long story short. Cost of replacement for the pants grew astronomically out of control and somebody realized that poly melts when exposed to high heat (those steam burns C420 alluded to).

Now everything we wear is 100% cotton AND made right here in the wonderful United States!

 

[rondebmar]

I thought it was the ROBERTS before that...or the FORRESTAL before that. Yes, I'm being a smart ass.

Or the Saratoga before that! Dark night in the Med ...NATO X going on, much ord on deck. A4 landed in the pack during pull forward. Three dead, several major injuries, ten aircraft loaded with Mk 80 series loaded up pushed over the side ...ship's DCA told me 78% of ship's foam expended!

We flew the next AM. ;-)