The Great Flight Jacket Thread (wearing/buying Leather, NOMEX, WEP jackets/patches)

[Waveoff]

Also good thing to have, a plain black and/or brown velcro nametag with just your name or name then rank +USN (like the marines wear). Helps for checking into a command in case your sponsor forgot to order one for you, or if you need to throw it on a jacket and don't want to keep switching your squadron specific one.

 

[ChuckMK23]

For the leather nametag for the G-1, is there any difference between black and gold text outside of preference (like you have to be an AC to get the gold, example)? Is one more common to have? I am winging in a few weeks (one flight left), so I am trying to get all the random (but sort of exciting and highly anticipated) admin done regarding nametags and the like. And also, a little off topic, but still along the lines of flight gear: are there any unwritten rules to monogramming your flight helmet bag?

Overall, I'm asking these dumb questions because I don't want to be the guy checking into the FRS committing a bunch of faux pas and walking around with unearned saltiness. I totally understand the flight school king life is short-lived and you're the new guy all over again. I am just excited to be part of the club and not be a pledge anymore.

And for those curious, the student G-1 superstition is alive and well. I have never seen any student wear it in my 2.5 years in the pipeline.

Always a fan of a good quality dark brown or black leather nametag on G1 with gold embossing, wings, and first and last name or two initials and last name. No rank or anything else on second line. Helmet bags are all over the place. In my day, the PR's at your type FRS would sew a plain stenciled cotton 1 inch tall tape on bag and stencil your last name... Ymmv

 

[nittany03]

But, the only people I know of that have been disciplined for no nametag are the AWOs in my squadron, who are told they are forbidden from wearing the leather jacket until they earn their aircrew wings (stupid, but chiefs will be chiefs).

Every once in a while, the Mess seems to need a reminder that they aren’t actually in charge.

 

[robav8r]

Every once in a while, the Mess seems to need a reminder that they aren’t actually in charge.

From: OPNAV INSTRUCTION 10126.4E

a. Issue and Wear. Leather flight jackets are authorized for wear upon issue except as noted in subparagraphs 6a(1)(a) through 6a(1)(c). Leather flight jackets must be issued to authorized personnel as per subparagraph 6a(1):

(1) Initial Issue

(c) U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps enlisted aircrew personnel upon completion of the Naval Aircrew Candidate School at NAVAVSCOLSCOM.

Yeah, the Goat Locker can be a bit oppressive at times, but it always pays to know the rules . . . .

 

[FLGUY]

From: OPNAV INSTRUCTION 10126.4E

a. Issue and Wear. Leather flight jackets are authorized for wear upon issue except as noted in subparagraphs 6a(1)(a) through 6a(1)(c). Leather flight jackets must be issued to authorized personnel as per subparagraph 6a(1):

(1) Initial Issue

(c) U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps enlisted aircrew personnel upon completion of the Naval Aircrew Candidate School at NAVAVSCOLSCOM.

Yeah, the Goat Locker can be a bit oppressive at times, but it always pays to know the rules . . . .

But Waveoff’s example was talking about AWOs in his Squadron, where they’ve already completed NACCS.

Plus even then, everybody bends the rules when it comes to leather jackets. Many a Skipper/XO have donned custom leather jackets with unauthorized hand pockets and flags/patches.

The Chiefs’ are good at what they do, but being the “petty uniform regulation police” is silly and should be looked at as such.

 

[robav8r]

But Waveoff’s example was talking about AWOs in his Squadron, where they’ve already completed NACCS.

Plus even then, everybody bends the rules when it comes to leather jackets. Many a Skipper/XO have donned custom leather jackets with unauthorized hand pockets and flags/patches.

The Chiefs’ are good at what they do, but being the “petty uniform regulation police” is silly and should be looked at as such.

There's nothing for the Goat Locker to enforce, but you gotta know the actual rules & regs though. That's all I was saying. You graduate NACCS, you're authorized to wear the jacket. Period.

 

[Waveoff]

I think the thing that the AWOs face is a similar thing to SNA/SNFOs. Not being technically allowed to wear the jacket without the nametag and also not wanting to put a nametag without wings on. IMHO the regs should throw a “shall” in the wording, since “must” and “should” aren’t enforceable terms.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I think the thing that the AWOs face is a similar thing to SNA/SNFOs. Not being technically allowed to wear the jacket without the nametag and also not wanting to put a nametag without wings on. IMHO the regs should throw a “shall” in the wording, since “must” and “should” aren’t enforceable terms.

The AF puts up with none of this silliness. That's crazy. The whole issue is one of the cultural failures of Naval Aviation. Plus we keep putting a pedestal on the culture and value of Chief Petty Officers. Another weakness. Give flying crew members what they need to accomplish the mission. Period.

The G1 was issued as an "intermediate" flight jacket designed to be worn during "activities involving flight". Where as the AF A2 jacket is prohibited from use during flying. A simple Velcro rectangle for nametag solves issues. It's a great tradition.

 

[robav8r]

I think the thing that the AWOs face is a similar thing to SNA/SNFOs. Not being technically allowed to wear the jacket without the nametag and also not wanting to put a nametag without wings on. IMHO the regs should throw a “shall” in the wording, since “must” and “should” aren’t enforceable terms.

I was one of those "AW's" for 15 years. The Goat Locker is filled with many, non-flying enlisted rates. I knew many AW's that carried a laminated copy of the flight jacket regs in their gun pocket. Choose your rate, choose your fate

 

[FLGUY]

There's nothing for the Goat Locker to enforce, but you gotta know the actual rules & regs though. That's all I was saying. You graduate NACCS, you're authorized to wear the jacket. Period.

I see, we are in agreement. Miscommunication.

 

[HSMPBR]

The AF puts up with none of this silliness. That's crazy. The whole issue is one of the cultural failures of Naval Aviation. Plus we keep putting a pedestal on the culture and value of Chief Petty Officers. Another weakness.

If we move this to the navy/AF cultural differences thread, we could explore the oddities of the CMS (aka Chief) compared to the navy chiefs.

 

[Gatordev]

Not being technically allowed to wear the jacket without the nametag...

Was this a uniform reg change or just VP being VP? A name tag didn't used to be required on the G1.

 

[Odominable]

In the Marines at least technically a name tag is required in the order, but you’d be hard pressed to find someone who gave a shit about that. It also specifies that all name tags, flight suit or G-1, must be of the Velcro backed leather flight suit type, which clearly no one abides by. I like to think of them more as uniform “suggestions”.

 

[jointhelocalizer]

Was this a uniform reg change or just VP being VP? A name tag didn't used to be required on the G1.

This is what the current regs read via https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/References/US-Navy-Uniforms/Uniform-Regulations/Chapter-6/6801/

(2) Brown Leather Jacket. Naval aviators, pilots, flight officers, undergraduate pilots, NFOs, and flight surgeons, aerospace experimental psychologists, and aerospace physiologists may wear the leather flight jacket with flight suits, Service Khaki and Navy Blue Coveralls. Eligible enlisted air crewmen, E7-E9, are authorized to wear the leather flight jacket with flight suits, Service Khaki and Navy Blue Coveralls. Eligible enlisted aircrewmen E6 and below are authorized to wear the leather flight jacket with flight suits, Service Uniform (SU), and Navy Blue Coveralls. Only direct point to point transit is appropriate when the flight jacket is worn to and from work with working uniforms (excluding Navy Blue Coveralls, which may be worn in immediate working spaces only). Close zipper at least 3/4 of the way when worn. Management and control of leather flight jackets are outlined in OPNAVINST 10126.4 series.

(a) Brown Jacket Insignia/Patches. Insignia/patches will be worn on brown leather flight jackets as follows:

(1) Attachments. Logos may be affixed either hook and pile or directly to the jacket. Hook and pile fasteners will be black or brown and cut to the shape of the logo to be affixed.

(2) Left Breast. Black or brown 2 inches by 4 inches leather name tag. Centered in the top field will be the aircrew designation insignia (i.e., pilot, NFO aircrew EAWS, etc.). The name in block letters will occupy the lower field and will include a minimum first name or initial and last name. The use of name accents is authorized. Where appropriate, billet title (i.e., CO, XO, CAG, etc.) is optional.

(3) Optional Logos. One command patch may be worn over the right breast pocket. Maximum width may not exceed 4-1/2 inches. No other patches are authorized.

As an aside, I personally think the unauthorized Service Dress Aviator is a good look. It still brings a level of formality. Plus, the Ike is allowed for working-level meetings and transit. If the G-1 is allowed for khakis (which can be worn for working-level meetings and transit), then I don't see the issue.

 

[ChuckMK23]

The authorized wear with "Navy Blue Coveralls" is an interesting twist.