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The Great Debate (who should pay for school)

eddie

Working Plan B
Contributor
Yes, I am a prior and yes, I am speaking from experience. I've been working professionally since 2000-ish and only graduated from college in 2007 (attended classes at night and worked during the day).

I am of the opinion that kids should foot the bill for their own college education. They will appreciate it more and will give more thought when selecting their "major." You'll also think twice about d*cking around and will more than likely not have to worry about the "parental guilt" associated with your parents footing the bill for everything.

Don't get a degree just to get a degree. You know, is that psychology degree really going to help you?

Is there something wrong with those of us whose parents chose to work hard in order explicitly to send their children to college obligation / headache free?

Those of us who were told that people skills, hard work, and intellectual curiosity / desire to learn had more to do with a successful and fulfilling life than the "major" we selected?

I know that working for things makes them better, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wasting my fucking time because I may not pay for it. (Come to think of it, should the Academy kids work 20 hr/ week, or are their other obligations enough?)

Psychology? Seriously? Of all the "useless" stuff you could have picked from? If the purpose of higher education was to get a technical certificate qualifying me to go drill and strip mine Borneo, or for some hippo to drive a Greenpeace boat and trash on The Man, then that is just what it would be: vocational school. It's not. That's why you can even get a degree in things like Art, Women and Gender Studies, etc. It's about studying something / learning to study something.

We often treat college like a vocational cert, but that's a completely different issue.
 

navy09

Registered User
None
Yes, I am a prior and yes, I am speaking from experience. I've been working professionally since 2000-ish and only graduated from college in 2007 (attended classes at night and worked during the day).

I am of the opinion that kids should foot the bill for their own college education. They will appreciate it more and will give more thought when selecting their "major." You'll also think twice about d*cking around and will more than likely not have to worry about the "parental guilt" associated with your parents footing the bill for everything.

Don't get a degree just to get a degree. You know, is that psychology degree really going to help you?

I think we're on the same page. I definitely agree with paying for college yourself. Just remember that everyone's "college experience" is different. I wouldn't say that having the 'true' college experience means being immature and not seeing the big picture.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Is there something wrong with those of us whose parents chose to work hard in order explicitly to send their children to college obligation / headache free?

Nothing wrong at all. People have their own opinions about the matter.

My opinion is that kids should put themselves through college. Some may disagree and that's cool.

Those of us who were told that people skills, hard work, and intellectual curiosity / desire to learn had more to do with a successful and fulfilling life than the "major" we selected?

I agree in that hard-working, driven people will succeed, no matter what, I agree.

I know that working for things makes them better, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wasting my fucking time because I may not pay for it. (Come to think of it, should the Academy kids work 20 hr/ week, or are their other obligations enough?)

My point was that when you pay for your own education, you give it more thought, especially when you write the checks each semester.

That's why you can even get a degree in things like Art, Women and Gender Studies, etc.

That was my point: some kids get these silly degrees because they are intellectually curious, but don't bother to think about what they will do to pay their bills when they leave college.

We often treat college like a vocational cert, but that's a completely different issue.

Agreed.
 

BlackBearHockey

go blue...
That was my point: some kids get these silly degrees because they are intellectually curious, but don't bother to think about what they will do to pay their bills when they leave college

Compared to the billions of people with business degrees who are assistant managers at Tom's Gas-n-go? You're placing wayyyy too much emphasis on the degree rather than what the person does in college to augment it and their drive for work. If someone's only reason for breathing is obscure Gaelic literature and they're delighted to work in some random museum, what's wrong with that? Just because it doesn't meet YOUR standards doesn't mean they're "silly." College isn't supposed to be a glorified vocational school.
 

torpedo0126

Member
I'm just gonna come right out and say don't go to VMI. I didn't go there, and I'm sure I will take some criticism, but I had a great time going through college and NROTC. You have four years to learn and be indoctrinated into the military (as a rule of thumb). I recommend enjoying those four years as much as possible before things get real.

I'm sure VMI has its moments, but I'm fairly sure its not like going to a Big Ten school either.

Btw--My friend went to William & Mary and never shuts up about it. Great school and beautiful women.

I am of the opinion that kids should foot the bill for their own college education.

I don't agree with this in principle. If your parenting style taught your children to appreciate what you've been given, then I think receiving a free college education would epitomize your teachings.

But at the same time, if my kid is an unappreciative little sh!t I would probably reconsider.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I guess I could say I had the "true college experience," whatever that means, since I went to a civvy college and commissioned through OCS. I can't speak on what you'll experience at VMI or the Academy; what I can say is that my time in college was a huge growing experience that I would not trade for anything. That encompasses many realms...being able to meet new people (particularly women), dealing with the responsibility of motivating yourself to succeed, and balancing that with nightlife on the weekends. Additionally, I got to spend time working in the corporate world, which helped motivate me through OCS since I hated sitting at a cubicle. A civilian college will be what you make of it, since it will be up to you to decide how you spend your free time. Are you going to study and get a part time job when you're only in class 15-20 hrs a week, or are you going to spend that free time drinking away your tuition?

My NNPS class had about 75-80% Academy graduates, 3 OCS graduates, and the rest were NROTC. From an outside perspective, I noticed in the beginning that yes, those who came from the Academy came in with very strong bonds between each other, due to having suffered through the same suck together. They also have the plus side of being able to relate instantly to a lot of the staff/mid level officers who also graduated from the Academy. I would compare it to being in class with a bunch of guys from the same big fraternity, complete with ridiculous hazing stories. On the negative side, I have noticed that many of them are acting the way I did when I was 18-19 years old re: drinking and partying. They've had such a structured life in college that they are now breaking out with their newfound "freedom." The thing is that they're now commissioned officers who are supposed to be setting an example.

I also strongly disagree with bubblehead's statements, particularly because anyone who gets a scholarship would fall into his category of having college paid for. I have seen a lot of people receive aid from their parents through college, and most of them were very appreciative for it. There is some merit to being careful when selecting a degree, but it is difficult as a 19-20 year old to look that far ahead. This problem is perpetuated by academic advisors who do not stress job markets when their students are looking to pick courses of studies, but rather tell them "pick anything you want" as if it doesn't matter. But this has very much to do with the maturity of a 19 year old sophomore and the "wisdom" of someone who's never worked outside of academia, and very little to do with whether or not someone is paying for their college, getting loans, on scholarship, or getting a free ride from mommy and daddy.

So as has been said: if you think you need the structure, a military university or college is probably right for you. As for my perspective, I think the freedom afforded to someone attending a non-military college helps one mature and grow independence in a way that military schools can't provide.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
I also strongly disagree with bubblehead's statements, particularly because anyone who gets a scholarship would fall into his category of having college paid for.

Uhm, my opinions are in regard to parents footing the bill. Receiving a scholarship is different case because the person receiving it had to work to receive it. Totally different.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Not really. Anyone who gets accepted to a competitive college would have to had worked for it, too.

On the flip side, anyone who isn't paying for college is not pulling money out of their own pocket, which you deem necessary for someone to appreciate it. It doesn't matter where that money comes from -- scholarship or otherwise.

I have seen a lot of AP students go down the beaten path in college, and I've seen some kids I thought were shitbags kick ass in college. What you do at 16 under parental supervision isn't indicative of what you'll do at 18 when the only person motivating you is you.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Not really. Anyone who gets accepted to a competitive college would have to had worked for it, too.

On the flip side, anyone who isn't paying for college is not pulling money out of their own pocket, which you deem necessary for someone to appreciate it. It doesn't matter where that money comes from -- scholarship or otherwise.

I have seen a lot of AP students go down the beaten path in college, and I've seen some kids I thought were shitbags kick ass in college. What you do at 16 under parental supervision isn't indicative of what you'll do at 18 when the only person motivating you is you.


Plenty of people earn acceptance into Universities but have to earn the funds to even attend. Thus they have to kick a little more ass than average to make it through. Your parents predetermining to give you money for college unconditionally is completely different than getting the grades, filling out an application, competing with peers, and MAYBE being awarded a scholarship. And both are different from taking the kick in the ass in the form of loans and putting your money where your mouth is, possibly working a job or two for good measure. But none of the paths are entitlements.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Again, false assumptions. Not everyone who gets good grades or is an athletic superstar in high school needs to work hard for it. Conversely, I've seen people work themselves a ton for only mediocre scores that would not be good enough for a scholarship. Don't even get me started on scholarships given out because your mother's father's sister's uncle was a Cherokee.

Bottom line: like I said originally, the generalization is way off, and doesn't apply to enough people to even make it somewhat accurate.
 

eddie

Working Plan B
Contributor
I don't agree with this in principle. If your parenting style taught your children to appreciate what you've been given, then I think receiving a free college education would epitomize your teachings.

But at the same time, if my kid is an unappreciative little sh!t I would probably reconsider.
Basically...
Compared to the billions of people with business degrees who are assistant managers at Tom's Gas-n-go? You're placing wayyyy too much emphasis on the degree rather than what the person does in college to augment it and their drive for work. If someone's only reason for breathing is obscure Gaelic literature and they're delighted to work in some random museum, what's wrong with that? Just because it doesn't meet YOUR standards doesn't mean they're "silly." College isn't supposed to be a glorified vocational school.
There are no useless majors, there are just a larger preponderance of useless people in certain ones... You can study Medieval Literature and then go on to work in the Fortune 500.

Uhm, my opinions are in regard to parents footing the bill. Receiving a scholarship is different case because the person receiving it had to work to receive it. Totally different.

Ok, I'm gonna be that guy, mostly because I'm curious about my own logic here. Why is it totally different? If someone recieves a scholarship and doesn't pay for school, they suddenly lose all possible benefits of working their way through school...
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Ok, I'm gonna be that guy, mostly because I'm curious about my own logic here. Why is it totally different? If someone recieves a scholarship and doesn't pay for school, they suddenly lose all possible benefits of working their way through school...

They lack true consequences. The kind loving parents will spare them vs. Real Life and reality

Few people I know get lucritive scholarships without maintaining standards which from the cases I've seen is work vs. a guy existing on a "C" average because he can. Even if he does puts out and gets over a 3.0, he gets a pass with failing/withdrawing courses and "taking the C" every now and then.
 

HercDriver

Idiots w/boats = job security
pilot
Super Moderator
Isn't VMI a private college that you will have to pay for? Not sure how the discussion regarding where the funds for college originate really benefits the OP, but that is how AirWarriors works. :)

Anyhoo, hot chicks, partying, Greek life, a great football team, and other stuff that goes along with going to a "regular" school are all waaaaay overrated.

Just keep telling yourself that whilst in the Rat Line and I'm sure you will stay plenty motivated. Hell, one Tuesday morning at zero-dark-thirty while getting crushed by upperclassmen n the cold, pouring rain you may even believe it for a few brief seconds.;)
 

Ajleger

New Member
Ok, I'm gonna be that guy, mostly because I'm curious about my own logic here. Why is it totally different? If someone recieves a scholarship and doesn't pay for school, they suddenly lose all possible benefits of working their way through school...

The student had to work for the scholarship though. I think it's great that my parents didn't pay my way; granted, they let me live at home for free until I got accepted for BDCP and could afford to move out, but how I was going to pay for school (and that includes if I chose to live on campus or go to a different school more than an hour away as UCF is) was up to me.

Knowing that in high school pushed me a lot harder to get good grades and get that scholarship so I could work for things I want (car, cell phone, insurance, food etc) instead of just to pay for school. It also did focus me on getting a major that would stand up in the private sector (although honestly, after doing a Co-op at Kennedy Space Center I realized that a cubicle job wasn't for me either).

Sure it would be nice to have them pay for it; but the rewards for a college degree are worth way more than they cost (depending on the degree, of course). If I had no scholarships, I still could have graduated with under 25k in loan debt. Why should my parnets have been expected to sacrifice part of their retirement for that so I could make more money?
 
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