• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

The Citadel-good NROTC program??

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Jesus Chr!st. Let's not turn this into another ERAU bash. ERAU has NROTC, NROTC will prepare you to ba an officer. The Citadel/VMI/whatever military school runs their own program along with NROTC, which will also prepare you.

Keep it on track.
 

Country Boy

Proud Father
Just to even things up a little. The Citadel won't really help much in the education side. They are still teaching a South-biased version of the Civil War that contradicts the real facts. Read "Confederates in the Attic" by Tony Horwitz. It's a hilariously true trip through various parts of the South and has a pretty good section on the Citadel.
 

USN99

USN99
None
From my perspective

RetreadRand said:
The Citadel is a great school and people are always impressed by it. You get something out of that place that you will find NOWEHERE ELSE.

- I am absolutely not a Cid grad. However, I have a close family member who is a Citadel grad. I'm impressed by El Cid.
- If I were a parent having to face the cost of college, I would highly recommend spending the education dollar there (or VMI).
- El Cid rates highly among public-universities for graduation rates (especially among athletes) and among South Eastern public colleges it rates highly in value (I think this is a U.S. News & World report survey).
- The Corps of Cadets is only about half the total student body. I found out that after the Corps day class schedule ends, a whole new student body arrives to take classes from many if not the exact same faculty and in the same classrooms. They earn the same degrees as the Corps (diplomas, I think are denoted differently, I think.) :confused: I'm fairly certain that VMI is cadets only, no night students.
- That shot about being Southern-biased is off base and unfair. While there is a heavy representation from South Carolina among the Corps; and the Southern States in the Corps, they are not grieving over the Civil War and are typically patriotic. That Southern-bias crack reflects upon its author. I recommend that that person elevate their line of sight above their navel.
- Funding for El Cid, unfortunately, is formula based from the State Legislature. I personally, think it deserves more because of its academic performance (see above).
- The Corps, I think, is capped at 2000. This is a heads and beds limitation. It continues to receive an abundance of applications and entry standards have been rising every year for at least a decade if not longer.
- I have a lot of respect for Citadel and VMI grads. They chose well.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
RetreadRand said:
Embry will teach you aero, but it won't teach you how to become an officer.

Blanket statements like this don't work. Again, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you mean, "ERAU will not teach you how to be an officer, the NROTC program will". (disclaimer: I didn't go to ERAU)

RetreadRand said:
zab: at The Citadel, VMI, the Academies etc. You do not wear your uniform once a week, or once a month. You wear one everyday, you learn the military life and live it every single day.You have to shave everyday and have a reg haircut everyday and shine your shoes everyday and have to earn stuff like going home for the weekend etc etc. I am not bashing ERAU, I would have made that comment had someone asked "The Citadel or Southern Illinois" (which is another school with a top aviation program)...I am just saying that these schools teach you something that you cannot learn in a "real college"

I hesitated to respond here, because I don't want the thread to degenerate into "NROTC at a normal college" vs "Military School". No doubt, the 24/7 discipline package you experienced contributed to your development as a Naval Officer. But entirely discounting a commissioning source (sources? if we're talking all 'straight-stick' NROTC) is wrong. We've all seen rock stars and sh!tbags from EVERY source.

If you're trying to say "El Cid is a unique opportunity and environment in which to earn a commission", great, good on ya. What did the program entail? How did NROTC play into your life as a student (I dunno if Cid people are called cadets/mids...)? Service selection? Cruises? Let's help this kid out.

Again, this topic gets brought up and discussed AD NAUSEAUM about twice a year (Integer, anyone?). Invariably it becomes "guys from ---- suck, guys from ---- rule".

The original poster seems to be looking for anecdotal advice or accounts of experience in both programs. I know we have COMMISSIONED guys from both sources on here...speak up guys.
 

USN99

USN99
None
Back in the beginning ...

I think that the original inquiry (PiperPilot2004) involved around whether or not there is a correlation between college/commissioning program and getting accepted into Naval Aviation.

From my humble experience, I must assert the answer is an emphatic "no".

The Navy does a creditable job in allocating aviation pipeline slots to its three main commissioning programs. So my advice is this:

- If you want to fly, go USAF.
- If you want to be a Naval Officer, pick a Navy commissioning program.
- If you eventually decide that you want to be a Naval Officer that flys, then just do your absolute best at all you do and that's all you can do. There is no finessing college selection or commissioning program to gain some sort of edge in getting a naval aviation pipeline selection.

And some universal advice, which would apply to college/commissioning program selection - do what you want or feel like. If you like what you're doing, you'll do better than if you chose something that sounded good.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
zab1001 said:
NROTC will prepare you to ba an officer.
This of course assumes NROTC does in fact prepare you do be an officer. Wait...I think we may have a thread with a similair theme to this.....why, yes we do.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Steve Wilkins said:
Originally Posted by zab1001
JNROTC will prepare you to ba an officer.

This of course assumes NROTC does in fact prepare you do be an officer. Wait...I think we may have a thread with a similair theme to this.....why, yes we do.

Still wouldn't mind reading some first hand accounts of the Citadel experience...hint hint hint
 

NukeWife

Smiling like I mean it
Piperpilot2004 said:
was wondering if anyone went to this school?? Did you like it? Hows the NROTC program, and is it a good place to go if I want to get into Naval Aviation or should i stick to Embry-Riddle?? I do not have the grades for the academy at the moment.


http://www.citadel.edu/


My husband is a current student at The Citadel. He is in the STA-21 program, though, so he's not a cadet, and he doesn't have to go through all the stuff that they do. If you have any specific questions about the NROTC program, he can probably help you.
 
B

Bulldog05

Guest
I graduated from the Citadel in May and I am currently stashed here until I class up in P-Cola. I have read a number of the posts on this thread and some of them are absolutely false. Let me straighten this out a little:

-The Corps of Cadets is not half normal college students half cadets. We are all cadets or enlisted commissioning program students during the day. We have a night school but the cadets and STA-21 are not part of that. Only cadets live on campus. This is not Texas A&M or Va. TECH

-To say that this schools educational standards are not high and that we preach some sort of biased interpretation of the Civil War is an outright lie. I just took a civil war history class in my last semester and we examined both sides of the war and looked at it from many different perspectives. Furthermore, the education you recieve here is not only challenging, it is an education that will prepare you to meet the demands that are placed on you as a junior officer.

-We should not be compared to Embry because it is an apples to oranges situation. Embry is a great school and can prepare you for being commissioned and for flight school. The Citadel offers you the additonal oppurtunity to learn about leadership and responsibility 24 hours a day for 4 years. There are not many other places in the country where a 22 year old kid can command and manage a company of 100+ men and women for a year and be responsible for their success and well being.

-Lastly, someone said Charleston gets boring, Charleston never gets old and the girls are not just "OK" there are more hot girls in this city than any other college town I've ever seen. I know because I married one of those girls last week. This city welcomes cadets and servicemen. You will have an absolute blast down here and if you get bored with it then you might want to have yourself checked out for ADD or something. VMI is a great school and if you are into the outdoors moreso than going out in the city VMI may be a better fit for you. I love hiking and fishing so VMI was a definite consideration for me when I started looking. I did not find much differnce in the training so your choice is really more about location when deciding between El CID and VMI.

If you decide to attend The Citadel or VMI you will be taking on challenges in addition to the ones you will face academically. As long as you go into this with that in mind, you will do fine and you will have gained knowledge, experience, and discipline that will not only help you in flight school but in life. I would be happy to talk to you about any aspect of the school Piper. Just shoot me a message.
 

BOMBSonHAWKEYES

Registered User
pilot
For the rest of your life when someone asks you where you went to college and you tell them "Citadel" or "VMI" they will instantly recognize that you mean business.
 

DocT

Dean of Students
pilot
BOMBSonHAWKEYES said:
For the rest of your life when someone asks you where you went to college and you tell them "Citadel" or "VMI" they will instantly recognize that you mean business.

And when I reply that I went to Michigan State thay will know that I also meant business....party business.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
BOMBSonHAWKEYES said:
For the rest of your life when someone asks you where you went to college and you tell them "Citadel" or "VMI" they will instantly recognize that you mean business.
What the hell is that supposed to mean? :icon_smil
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
The Lords of Dicispline

Anyone ever read The Lords of Dicispline? It's an awesome book, but I'm wondering how much it's really like The Citadel, especially nowadays... I'm about 3/4 of the way done with it, and it is just a really really great book so far, I'd recommend it to anyone. It's clearly meant to be like The Citadel, the author was a graduate of The Citadel, the school is set in Charleston, and the author wrote that it's based/ could be based on any military academy as he took his influences from interviews with male cadets/midshipmen at West Point, Annapolis, Air Force, VMI, The Citadel, and some military high schools in the South, but I'm wondering how much of it really is like The Citadel.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Having only done a quick pass the last few days on this site I just read this entire thread and am a little suprised that such a simple question could turn into a psuedo yelling match....oh wait, this is Airwarriors....nevermind..... :icon_tong

First, thanks to Zab for doing his moderator duties and trying to keep th discussion on track. Trashing other schools and their methods is not nice and has no place here. Getting into yet another food fight about whose school is better is tiresome and will never be settled, and it makes the posters look a little stupid. One of the great things about the American educational system is that it provides people the widest variety of schools in the world, you jsut have to have the money. Why do you think we get students from all over the world?

The Citadel is one of those institutions that is unique to this country. I graduated from the Citadel alomost ten years ago (AAHHHHHH :eek: , I am getting old!) Military colleges/academies in other countries have only one purpose, to produce military officers. The majority of grads from the Citadel do not even go in the military, it is a state college that happens to be a military one.

There are several other 4-year military colleges (not including the Academies) in the country. Virginia Tech, Texas A&M and Norwich all have corps of cadets, but they have civilian students as well (the vast majority of students at A&M and VTech are civilian). These schools are all worth looking at if you are looking at going to a school that has a military aspect, and all of them have ROTC programs that will allow you to become an officer.

The only other school like the Citadel is VMI, a traditional southern military college where the student bodies are all cadets (the Citadel does have Marine and Navy College Program students, former enlisted who are not cadets, who attend day classes and are in NROTC). While the Citadel does have a sizable night school, which is considered a different college, as a cadet you never have contact with the night school students. They do not take any classes with the cadets and have no social interaction with them, they also have a different diploma design and ring. There is a big difference between the all military enviroment at the Citadel and VMI and the civilian/military combination at Texas A&M/Norwich/VTech. That does not necessarily mean that one or the other is better, but it is something to keep in mind when you look at schools.

One thing that I can say for certain is that the school is nothing like The Lords of Discipline. Pat Conroy, the author, is a graduate and based it on his experiences when he went to the Citadel in the late 60's. There was severe hazing back then, but that was 40 years ago. There are occasionally isolated incidents but anyone involved in hazing nowadays is usually kicked out (by the time I graduated, if you touched a cadet you were kicked out). The school rightfully recognized that physical abuse has no place in todays military or education. I am not a great fan of Pat Conroy, he has said and done some really stupid things about the Citadel.

Charleston is a very nice city, if you ran out of things to do you were not looking very hard. A little small for my tastes, but I am from DC so my view is a bit skewed.

The education at the Citadel is first rate, including the history program. To say that the school teaches a biased view of history is flat out wrong. If your opinion is based on one book and/or 'what you heard', then you would make a poor historian/scholar/researcher and sound pretty biased yourself. I was a history major at the school and took a class called 'The War for Southern Independence', about the Civil War. The professor, a retired USNR CAPT, was quite the character but he was a good teacher and taught a balanced course. I am a Yankee and I don't buy the whole states right argument and think the apologists for the South's cause are usually idiots, but I recieved a quality education from great professors a the Citadel (yes, there were a handful that I would have liked to have thrown out the window) who showed no serious historical biases that impeded my edumacation.

So what can you take from the above? The Citadel can provide you a quality education and gives you an opportunity receive a commision in the military. ROTC is run a little differently than a normal unit but when I was there the staff worked hard to get you what you wanted and it was a good unit. If you are looking for a quality military college education, it is a great place to go. VMI is another option, I am very good friends with some grads from there and they are good guys. As I said before though, there are several other schools that have military components, including the state maritime colleges (Maine, Mass., California and NY). They are well worth the researching, you might find they are better fit.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Flash said:
One thing that I can say for certain is that the school is nothing like The Lords of Discipline. Pat Conroy, the author, is a graduate and based it on his experiences when he went to the Citadel in the late 60's. There was severe hazing back then, but that was 40 years ago. There are occasionally isolated incidents but anyone involved in hazing nowadays is usually kicked out (by the time I graduated, if you touched a cadet you were kicked out). The school rightfully recognized that physical abuse has no place in todays military or education. I am not a great fan of Pat Conroy, he has said and done some really stupid things about the Citadel.

Charleston is a very nice city, if you ran out of things to do you were not looking very hard. A little small for my tastes, but I am from DC so my view is a bit skewed.

...

So what can you take from the above? The Citadel can provide you a quality education and gives you an opportunity receive a commision in the military. ROTC is run a little differently than a normal unit but when I was there the staff worked hard to get you what you wanted and it was a good unit. If you are looking for a quality military college education, it is a great place to go. VMI is another option, I am very good friends with some grads from there and they are good guys. As I said before though, there are several other schools that have military components, including the state maritime colleges (Maine, Mass., California and NY). They are well worth the researching, you might find they are better fit.

Ok glad to hear that it's nothing like The Lords of Discipline, there's alot of gruesome stuff in there. I still think it's a great book though.


As far as the state maritime school in NY goes, it is a pretty solid school, SUNY Maritime. I applied and checked it out in the past few years. It was definitely an option for me for a little while. At first glance, I did like it, but not as much as I thought I would a year after I saw it and really thought about the opportunities there and got to talk to a graduate from my high school who was (at the time) a plebe there.

And as far as Texas A&M goes, my girlfriend is currently in their Corps of Cadets indoc, and it seems like a great program from what I've heard from her and her family. Does anyone else have any comment on Texas A&M; I'd really like to know what to expect a little more to try to stay in a relationship with her...
 
Top