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Thanks alot fellas....

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DaGreenLantern

Registered User
My officer recruiter told me to go to this website to find additional guides regarding the ASTB (I am studying the ARCO book and it isnt that good...and you guys confirmed it) and I am very impressed with the wealth of information and willingness to help each other. I am slated to take the test Tues., June 22 and thanks to DairyCreamer (I downloaded the PDF practice test) and others my confidence level has increased tremendously. For the record, I am applying for NFO as my first choice and I am very excited. I understand it will be challenging to not only meet, but exceed 'job requirement' expectations. I will do my very best.

I just wanted to let you all know that I am greatful for your insight and I really hope to be apart of the the Navy's aviation community in the near future! :D

This 1st step is very important to me, so please, by all means, if anyone has any suggestions regarding preparation or strategies, please reply.

Thanks again,
DaGreenLantern

p.s. I will check this thread daily for any replies.
 

ET-Mike

A-Pool Junkie
DaGreenLantern, it's great that you are so motivated, carry that with you when you join the service. Too many people forget why they wanted to join in the first place and end up becoming a self-hating A-hole. The spatial part of the ARCO book is a good 'practice' for the ASTB, but keep in mind the actual test looks a lot different than the ARCO book. Just figure out a system and use that on the test, you only have like 10 min for 30+ questions in the SA part so you will need a system. Good luck with everything.
 

Ironfeliks23

USC- Sr.
Aye, if I recall correctly you have 10 min even for 35 shots. All the same format. One cockpit view and 5? a/c views. When you do the practice, make sure you time yourself, get a feel for being rushed. For that section you have to be able to say "screw it," guess, (mark it if you think you have time to come back), and get to the next one. By the end some of the a/c shots start looking really similar. The other two gentlemen I took the test with were unprepared for the time restraint, they only finished 27-29 of the problems. Go in confident, after that its a breeze.
 

zuggerat

Registered User
For the SA u can usually eliminate a lot of choices simply because of whether the plane is flying inland or out to sea. Once you've eliminated which arent flying in the right direction then u evaluate which direction it's banking, and finally you evaluate the degree of bank. It's a little methode ive devised to get through the S.A., makes it so much easier. If you practice with that method you'll fly through it, no pun intended.
 

DaGreenLantern

Registered User
Thanx...thats good stuff......oh by the way...the monkey question...the weight = weight of the monkey so it is a system in equalibrium...hence there is no movement of the weight if the monkey goes up or down his (or hers) side of the rope....
 

crysmc

MH-60S Pilot Wife
Super Moderator
Contributor
DaGreenLantern~
GOOD LUCK ON YOUR ASTB! I'll say a little prayer for you on the 22nd. :) Stay positive, keep studying and do your best. And again... good luck!
 

crysmc

MH-60S Pilot Wife
Super Moderator
Contributor
DaGreenLantern said:
Thanx...thats good stuff......oh by the way...the monkey question...the weight = weight of the monkey so it is a system in equalibrium...hence there is no movement of the weight if the monkey goes up or down his (or hers) side of the rope....

One thing... I don't think your answer here is correct. There are some really brilliant people on this site and I'm sure they'll be able to explain this much more eloquently than me. But I'll try anyway...

Basically, this is a nice little problem from Newton's third principle of the Force and Inertia law, in that to every action there exists an equal and opposite reaction. (Law one is that in the absence of forces, an object ("body") at rest will stay at rest, and a body moving at a constant velocity in a straight line continues doing so indefinitely and Law two is when a force is applied to an object, it accelerates. The acceleration is in the direction of the force and proportional to its strength, and is also inversely proportional to the mass being moved.)

Yes, both the monkey and the weight have the same weight. The hook of the rope is acting as the fulcrum. However, if the monkey moves up, the system is no longer in equilibrium and the weight must move up to compensate for this. If the monkey moves down, the weight must move down to remain in equilibrium. When the monkey pulls himself up, he pulls the weight up. When the monkey moves down the rope, the weight also moves down.

An interesting sidebar to this theory is that if the monkey lets go of the of the rope for a second, all of a sudden the system has had a force added and the weight has an acceleration downwards... so if the monkey then grabs back onto it, thus making the weights equal again, there is now an acceleration to factor in. To balance this out, the monkey would start to travel upwards and the weight would slow down. This problem gets more and more interesting, but for the ASTB, we won't worry about that. Okay, I'm going off on a tangent now, huh?

So back to the original problem; if the monkey moves up, the weight moves up also. The monkey moves down... the weight does also.

Hope this made some sort of sense. If you have more question, PM or IM me. :)
 

Ironfeliks23

USC- Sr.
DaGreenLantern said:
Thanx...thats good stuff......oh by the way...the monkey question...the weight = weight of the monkey so it is a system in equalibrium...hence there is no movement of the weight if the monkey goes up or down his (or hers) side of the rope....

As I see it:

Short answer yes with a maybe, long answer no with a but. All in all yes....monkey = weight the rope system is in equilibrium. Both the monkey and the weight are creating a force vector pulling on either side of the pulley. The monkey and the weight can exist ANYWHERE on those lines and be in equilibrium. Movement at a constant velocity (i.e. no force) along that line (the rope) should not change that equilibrium thusly does not move the weight. This is a strange issue, since a perfect frictionless pulley and so forth would cause problems. The momentary acceleration of him starting his climb would put the system in motion and change everything, however I think the point of the question is to address the basics.

The relative position of the weight and the monkey on their ropes is IRRELIVANT to the equilibrium of the system. If the monkey moves up or down on the rope, the weight should not move (disregarding friction, his momentary acceleration, and other nit pick details). I don’t think it is meant to be analyzed any further then its face value.

Anyhow hope this helps a little bit. If not I will try to do better, hell maybe draw a picture...drop me a line.
 

DaGreenLantern

Registered User
I concur...the only motion in a frictionless pulley system would be caused by the monkey's intitial downward force caused by a climbing motion...but I don't think it is that serious and just the basics should be evaluated because M1 (monkey) = M2....thank you all and please keep any thoughts, ideas, questions, or suggestions coming...

peace out...
 

crysmc

MH-60S Pilot Wife
Super Moderator
Contributor
*SIGH* Did you guys even read what I wrote? If you want to research your incorrect answer some more, go to www.google.com and type in "lewis carroll monkey on a rope".

This site gives a simple explanation. http://rec-puzzles.org/new/sol.pl/physics/monkey

But here's some more about the problem also:
This problem was popularized by Lewis Carroll (1832-1898, né Charles Dodgson), who agonized over it [recall that the author of Alice in Wonderland was actually a professor of mathematics at Oxford from 1855 to 1881].

The answer is that the centers of inertia of the weight and the monkey will have the same vertical motion (we assume, of course, that the monkey only goes up or down but does not swing the rope). Thus, if the monkey and the weight are initially motionless at the same height, they will always face each other no matter what the monkey does. For example, they will both be in free fall if the monkey lets go of the rope, and both falls stop when the monkey grabs the rope again.

The reason for this is simply that all the forces that are acting on either the monkey or the balancing weight are always equal. There are only two such forces for each body, the weight and the tension of the rope. The weights are equal because the two bodies have the same mass and the rope also exerts the same force on either body because of the numerous "ideal" assumptions made here, including the absence of swinging on the monkey's side (so that the rope exerts only a vertical force in either case). It's also essential to assume not only the lack of any friction, but also the absence of mass for both pulley and rope (otherwise the rope's tension would not be the same on either side of an accelerating pulley and it would vary along the length of an accelerating rope).

[Note also that a "perfect" rope retains its length and transmits instantly its change of tension. This is clearly unrealistic, but it's logically consistent with the axioms of classical mechanics. Changes in tension propagate with infinite speed over the length of a "massless" rope. Such an assumption would be logically inconsistent in the context of relativistic mechanics.]

When the same forces act on bodies of the same mass their speeds change in the same way, so that the speeds remain equal if they are originally so (and we are told here of an original equilibrium where both speeds are zero). Both motions will therefore mirror each other.

From the monkey's perspective, pulling 2 feet of rope will get him only 1 foot higher from the ground, but will require as much effort (work) as would be necessary to climb 2 feet on a stationary rope. That's not surprising in view of the fact that 20 lb were lifted one foot in the process (the monkey and the weight went up one foot each), which is just as difficult a task for a 10 lb monkey as lifting his own weight up two feet...

It's deceptively simple; the monkey moves up, the rope moves up. The monkey moves down, the rope moves down.

If you have any questions, Private Message me and I will put you in touch with my physics professor.

~Crystal
 

DaGreenLantern

Registered User
Ok...Ok...Ok...since the masses are equal with ideal conditions....the monkey AND the weight will rise at the same rate the monkey pulls himself/herself up the rope because the system is in equilibrium which has to be conserved due to equal masses....If the length of rope is equal on either side of the pulley, they should reach the top at the same time. So if the monkey pulls 2 ft of rope, he would have a delta h of 1 ft because the weight would move 1ft on the other side....but the monkey would still do the Work associated climbing 2 ft of rope...as the light bulb flashes vigorously above my head....

You're pretty resourceful Crystal....Hey...I was wondering what you are doing next Tuesday morning around 8ish...I was hoping to take you out to IHOP for breakfast then fit you into my shirt pocket.... LOL...just playin around...Thanks again for the insight....

If anyone else out there knows of any little trick questions like this one please put your two cents in and help make our world a better place....

peace out....
 

crysmc

MH-60S Pilot Wife
Super Moderator
Contributor
DaGreenLantern said:
You're pretty resourceful Crystal....Hey...I was wondering what you are doing next Tuesday morning around 8ish...I was hoping to take you out to IHOP for breakfast then fit you into my shirt pocket.... LOL...just playin around...Thanks again for the insight....


Yeah, I've already had my fair share of "stalkers" from this website, so go ahead and jump on the bandwagon. J/k :icon_tong In all seriousness, you're welcome and I'm glad you see the light now. Let me know if you have any other questions. And thanks for thanking the ladies too. Again, GOOD LUCK!
 
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