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TAO, A. Strike O, or A. Air Ops

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
There's one O-3 Aviator billet on CSG staff to speak for aviation issues. I'd say it's a good-ish deal in that you only embark when the Admiral gets aboard, but there's only 12-ish CSGs so it's not a lot of billets. One boat probably has that many shooters alone.

I'm sure there are little differences from CSG to CSG. Overall, I'd say LTs are pretty few and far between, CSGs are O-4/O-5 heavy staffs. I want to say that it's pretty common to have a LT Growler backseater on staff as EWO.
 

cfam

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I want to say that it's pretty common to have a LT Growler backseater on staff as EWO.
That’s correct, although it’s viewed as an off-track job by the community. I’ve seen people with first tour MPs, off-track O-4s, or those that weren’t given a mission commander qual in their fleet squadron in that job. Based on conversations with those “lucky” enough to be in the job, it seems thankless and pointless at the same time, which is a shame, because CSG EWOs could be useful if they were utilized properly.
 
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SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
I'm sure there are little differences from CSG to CSG. Overall, I'd say LTs are pretty few and far between, CSGs are O-4/O-5 heavy staffs. I want to say that it's pretty common to have a LT Growler backseater on staff as EWO.

Doesn't surprise me there's some billet inflation. Ours was a VFA LT (LCDR SEL) who was basically there to do the deployment and then roll to his DH tour. Don't know who he pissed off for that deal.
 

tarjas

Alooo-haaa
None
I think the CG CO (O-6) does as well, but maybe also for the DESRON. Not 100% on that one.

- CG CO's work for the CSG. Plenty of SWO politics involved in scheduling/managing HRU/escorts, always good for a chuckle. I occasionally feel sorry for the LT DESRON OPSO who has nothing between her, her Commo/DCommo and the CG COs but only a little...

There's one O-3 Aviator billet on CSG staff to speak for aviation issues.

- Lots of aviators in my CSG: N00, N3(O6), several O5s and a handful of O4s. We have an LDO AW sprinkled in, a MISR LT to rep MPRA/ISR. Add in helo dudes on DESRONs staff, the fact that all ships company who actually matters/makes decisions are aviators, and CAGs team = aviation issues get plenty of representation. On a good day we have less than 5 or 6 non flight suits in the war room. As it should be.

Having been a shooter and now in my current job, I'd recommend shooter every time.
 
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Duhgreat

Member
Modern organization is as such: CSG Commander is a one star, Pilot, NFO, or SWO. Their flag is usually on the Carrier, and have their staff (~30) embarked. The DESRON commander, Carrier CO, and CVW Commander (CAG), all O-6s, work for the Admiral. I think the CG CO (O-6) does as well, but maybe also for the DESRON. Not 100% on that one. There's one O-3 Aviator billet on CSG staff to speak for aviation issues. I'd say it's a good-ish deal in that you only embark when the Admiral gets aboard, but there's only 12-ish CSGs so it's not a lot of billets. One boat probably has that many shooters alone.

As far as heirarchy of disassocated sea tour jobs? Depends on what community you're from and what you want to do. CVN ANAV and AOPS are "community billets", tightly held by detailers and only given to people with very strong records. Usually I've heard FRS COs/XOs offering these to their LTs and proposed as "I'm making you an offer you cannot refuse". After that, for boat jobs, TAO, Strike OPS, Air Ops, Shooter are all just flavors of 13xx LT jobs, no better or worse from what I've seen. The other staff jobs will vary based on community values (HSM to DESRON staff, HM to MCMRON Staff, VP to PATRONWING Staff, etc). WTIs is the newer career path, going back to a squadron as a Tactics Officer for second sea tour. TACAIR had this model for a while and the rest of aviaition has copied it. WTIs tend to also get tapped for CVW staff now as well.

Trying to stay in but MP out of first tour combined with ROTC second tour has basically already sealed my fate. My CO today said TAO is gonna be the best career move, but Asst Air Ops would be most fun. Seems like that’s kinda the consensus here too. Thanks for all the advice...and acronyms I had to look up.
 

Short

Well-Known Member
None
And CVN LTs compete against other CVN LTs, TAO or Air Ops... get quals and work hard and you can earn a good FITREP. It probably won't overcome an MP to ROTC transition, but can put options on the table.
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
I occasionally feel sorry for the LT DESRON OPSO who has nothing between her, her Commo/DCommo and the CG COs but only a little... On a good day we have less than 5 or 6 non flight suits in the war room.

Both very savvy comments- it sounds like we work in the same CSG, but I'm sure it's more or less like this everywhere. FWIW, sitting through those briefs and meetings, I didn't feel like Surface issues were under-represented, just that people with a SWO pin have more of a voice than the rest. Which can be great or terrifying depending on who the SWO is.

Re: DESRON OPS, big changes coming there. It's currently a SWO LT/LCDR on his 2nd (18-mon) DH tour. It's becoming a post-DH job that will spot-promote to CDR. Exactly for the reason you describe above - makes him the same rank as CAG OPS, Carrier OPS, and the DDG COs.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Does the organizational culture of the CSG staff vary (or not vary) based on whether the CVN CO is from SWO or Aviation?

And same question for CSG RDML (which in theory could be any URL).
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
- Lots of aviators in my CSG: N00, N3(O6), several O5s and a handful of O4s. We have an LDO AW sprinkled in, a MISR LT to rep MPRA/ISR. Add in helo dudes on DESRONs staff, the fact that all ships company who actually matters/makes decisions are aviators, and CAGs team = aviation issues get plenty of representation. On a good day we have less than 5 or 6 non flight suits in the war room. As it should be.

What? I said O-3 1310/1320s the CSG staff, not the entirety of the CVN...? I have no doubt there's plenty of various ranked flight suits in various billets on the boat. You're mixing up CSG, CVN, and CVW jobs dude.

Trying to stay in but MP out of first tour combined with ROTC second tour has basically already sealed my fate. My CO today said TAO is gonna be the best career move, but Asst Air Ops would be most fun. Seems like that’s kinda the consensus here too. Thanks for all the advice...and acronyms I had to look up.

A "good" boat job with an OOD qual isn't going to fix a Fleet MP and non production shore tour, be careful you're not being sold a bill of goods. Have you asked your detailer for non-boat options like Korea/Bahrain/C-12s/whatever?
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
"Every ship is different" is one of those ground truths about the Navy- and the military. Two sister ships tied up to adjacent piers on the waterfront can have very different climates, some as sister squadrons in the same wing, and they're both only ever a change of comand away from being a lot different.

The CO's personality has more influence on the command climate than anything else.

I've worked for Navy pilots from all T/M/S communities, Marine pilots, Navy SWOs, Navy submariners, even Army cavalrymen (ground pounders, not pilots). All of them had their share of good leadership traits and human shortcomings. Some were "better" to work for than others, but there wasn't a lot of correlation between what their designator/primary MOS and how "good" they were to work for (how well they could get the job done and the unit morale). It comes down to the individual's personality.
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot
A "good" boat job with an OOD qual isn't going to fix a Fleet MP and non production shore tour, be careful you're not being sold a bill of goods. Have you asked your detailer for non-boat options like Korea/Bahrain/C-12s/whatever?

Never say never.

When I was a JO, one of our DHs was a 1st tour MP, did ROTC shore tour, then did a pain tour on a boat (I think mini on a Gator). If you look at recent selection rates and the trend line, if someone can cross the threshold to O-4 they are almost a have-to-select for DH at this point. Even in helo land we had bottom feeders with non-production shore tours pick up DH this last board.
 
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