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Supreme Court to review Stolen Valor Act

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
We get that, and I agree on a moral level, just not on a legal one. Like PD said (about five times now), fraud is already illegal. If it will make you happy and assuage your moral outrage, I'd agree to making impersonating a veteran an aggravating circumstance to fraud. There's really nothing more to discuss from a legal standpoint. We're going around in circles here.

Brett

Brett has spoken - so I suppose there is nothing else? The point I'm getting at, the last post just included extreme examples, is that impersonating a service member provides for untold number of advantages, financial or otherwise, that are (in our contemporary society) unique. You don't find the same opportunities for doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. This is why, in my mind, this form of "speech" should not be protected.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
impersonating a service member provides for untold number of advantages, financial or otherwise, that are (in our contemporary society) unique.
Agreed, and already illegal as a fraud - without the Stolen Valor Act. Shall we do another lap? :D Can you demonstrate a harm that falls outside of fraud (I.E. that's not resulting in personal gain or harm to another) that would merit additional statutory relief?

Brett
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
All of which are covered by fraud statutes - you can't outlaw speech. To put it another way, imagine a dude dressed up in uniform but publicly satirizing something on tv. He's misrepresenting himself as a military member - what's the difference between that and people scamming benefits? One is fraud, one is satire, but both would be illegal under Stolen Valor - and that's why it's unconstitutional.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
I don't see the distinction you're drawing. You're saying that the amount of time that one might discuss or perpetrate a false story is the difference between a criminal act and a garden variety lie? I know you're not trying to make a legal distinction, but I don't see the logical distinction either. What if the guy in the bar pretending to be a doctor keeps his story up for months while dating the chick he picked up? Assuming that he doesn't try to practice medicine in any way, does that now meet the threshold for a criminal act? Food for thought. :D

Brett

Intent, I suppose, but then again I'm not a lawyer!
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Intent, I suppose, but then again I'm not a lawyer!

Let's say, in this hypothetical scenario, we take two douchebags at a bar. One tells a chick that he's a renowned cardiac surgeon and gets laid, then continues to feed her this line for weeks and she buys all of it. The other tells her he's a Navy pilot and gets laid (stay with me here, it's a fictional story), then also keeps up this charade successfully for some time.

Which is the bigger asshole? I agree, as would most people here, that the one impersonating the vet is worse, because of all the people who've sacrificed their lives wearing the uniform, etc. A doctor might have a different opinion--the other guy is pissing on a noble profession, too, the Hippocratic Oath, etc.

Regardless, they're both basically doing the same thing, with the same intent--lying about who they are in order to gain respect, admiration, and in this case, pussy.

As far as the Constitutional law aspect, I'm not going to claim any special expertise, other than being a follower of such things. However, one of the great things about the Constitution is that it protects us all by preventing the good idea fairy from pissing all over our rights. People get riled up over the problem of the moment, and often try to enact measures that, in the long run, are really bad ideas. Suspending Habeus Corpus, the Alien and Sedition Acts, banning flag burning, things like that. It slows our roll, and makes us put some thought and rigor into things. That's why amending it is so damn hard.

Now, unfortunately, we've steamrolled over several rights in the interests of GWOT, to use another current example. The war on terror is a great cause, as is preventing asswipes from impersonating veterans, but neither is worth weakening any rights to do it.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
dude. really. arguing constitutional law on the interwebs with a bunch of people who aren't lawyers (self included). There's golf on my dvr.
Wait, you're not a lawyer? My bad. Try not to take things so seriously. It's a healthy intellectual debate, but I don't think anyone is arguing or getting bent out of shape.

@ PD: Brilliant!

Brett
 

NightVisionPen

In transition
pilot
This Act is merely what I call "feel good" legislation. People make a stink about it because the military has a very good overall rep so congress wants to "look" like they are doing something since they actually aren't doing anything worthwhile. Do I think anyone claiming to be a vet who isn't is a loser? Absolutely. Do I think it should be illegal? No. I don't buy the main article's reference to "theft of goodwill."

It is like outlawing concealed carry at the library or the mall - we know we did a background check on you and have deemed you safe and qualified to carry a gun, but people don't like guns in the public buildings so you can't carry one in there. Who follows that law? Only the good guys. But legislators get to make people "feel good" when they didn't do jack besides de-arm those who were deemed safe and qualified to carry guns. It isn't like they put metal detectors and security guards at every entrance.

Overall I oppose any type of "feel good" legislation as it is a waste of time and resources in addition to being about the most condecending thing that I feel politicians do.
 
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