Super Hornet in Pensacola

[TheBubba]

From the looks of it, it will have to be craned onto a truck.

Brett

It did. Its sitting outside one of the hangars on Sherman Field. Got a look at it today as I was walking back to the hangar. Pretty extensive damage. They were starting to work on repairs early this afternoon.

note*: My original contribution to this thread

minimal

was the result of a bit of alcohol and pretending to "know it all".

 

[jai5w4]

...and pretending to "know it all".

That's half the game.

-jai5w4

 

[C-Mike]

Blew both MLG tires.

Good series of pics in the link below. Scroll 1/3 of the way down. Nice catch on the photographer's part.

http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,4587.30.html

-jai5w4

In the first picture before touchdown, does something look a little off...? Am I seeinig a wind sock behind and just left of the nose gear...and if I'm reading things correctly, wouldn't they have been landing with a pretty stiff tailwind component, and with a lot of flaps no less? What the hell am I seeing in that picture

 

[TheBubba]

C-Mike... he did land with a pretty stiff tailwind. He's landing on 7R and the active (almost the whole weekend) was 25. I know 25 was the active on Saturday.

If memory serves correct, it was a 20+ Kt tailwind.

However, I will caviot that by saying that 7 will be the active with a tailwind, sometimes barely within limits of aircraft performance. Its happened to me a few times. Same with crosswinds.

 

[jai5w4]

According to a former Tomcat bubba who now flies airshows (including that day)... the Rhino driver did indeed land long, with a 15+ kt tailwind, and then mash on the brakes.

 

[C-Mike]

Thread drift...

^ Nailed the answer to my next question, somewhat.
- Of the many factors that lead to blow outs, what are the leading culprits?
- What impact might a largely pilot induced mishap-smaller incident, have on his career (despite the many potential contributing factors)? What impact does the resulting damage to the aircraft play ($$ wise), versus lets say, running of the end of the runway at low speed and just getting stuck in the mud with no resultant aircraft damage?

...One more reason (of the hundreds) that GA :icon_slee just doesn't cut it in the long run ...15-20 kt tailwind on final in the Rhino, no problem!! (well usually).

Sorry, I'm getting lengthy here, but after a two minute Google and AW search I didn't find any good answers...
- What are the standard published maximums for landing in a tailwind and crosswind in the Hornet/Rhino?

Thx.

 

[Brett327]

^ Nailed the answer to my next question, somewhat.
- Of the many factors that lead to blow outs, what are the leading culprits?
- What impact might a largely pilot induced mishap-smaller incident, have on his career (despite the many potential contributing factors)? What impact does the resulting damage to the aircraft play ($$ wise), versus lets say, running of the end of the runway at low speed and just getting stuck in the mud with no resultant aircraft damage?

...One more reason (of the hundreds) that GA :icon_slee just doesn't cut it in the long run ...15-20 kt tailwind on final in the Rhino, no problem!! (well usually).

Sorry, I'm getting lengthy here, but after a two minute Google and AW search I didn't find any good answers...
- What are the standard published maximums for landing in a tailwind and crosswind in the Hornet/Rhino?

Thx.

I don't know what the limits/common sense issues are for Hornets WRT tailwinds, but I wouldn't even consider landing my Prowler with a 20 kt tailwind - especially on a standard issue 8000 ft Navy RWY.

Brett

 

[jamnww]

Are you guys Fvcking kidding me? Do we really have a bunch of pre-wingie ready room commando's like Jai and others critiquing the aftermath and descisions of experience fleet aviators on a situation like a dual tire blow out?

I've got an idea... all of you with opinions look down low and left. If there isn't a set of gold wings... shut your goddamn mouth. If there are... I'm willing to bet you arn't saying anything because you know better, and would never second guess the split second desicions of your fellow aviators. WTF...

I got to disagree with you on this one, I don't see anyone posting that the pilot was an idiot or screwed up in some manner...I do see a lot of posts asking questions about limits for that aircraft and what others in the fleet would do in a similar situation. Brett even came on and added his thoughts on the matter.

Discussion is not a bad thing, and in the end it will increase the knowledge base of all those "pre-wingie's" out here who are aspiring to fly. I think that we should all have thick enough skin to have discussions on an open forum to talk about situations where we can improve headwork...hell thats all we do in the readyroom...well not all we do but still...

 

[e6bflyer]

I got to disagree with you on this one, I don't see anyone posting that the pilot was an idiot or screwed up in some manner...I do see a lot of posts asking questions about limits for that aircraft and what others in the fleet would do in a similar situation. Brett even came on and added his thoughts on the matter.

Discussion is not a bad thing, and in the end it will increase the knowledge base of all those "pre-wingie's" out here who are aspiring to fly. I think that we should all have thick enough skin to have discussions on an open forum to talk about situations where we can improve headwork...hell thats all we do in the readyroom...well not all we do but still...

Nobody has come out and said it, but I think it has been implied in a few posts that somehow the pilot is at fault. If you want to speculate, I recommend that you go over to Fencecheck and hang out with the dudes over there. They will provide about the same amount of good info that you are going to get here because
1. Most, not all, of the guys posting have no clue what they are talking about.
2. Anybody who does have a clue isn't going to share that info on this board until the mishap findings are released, which will be a long time from now.

If you "pre-wingies" are looking for good info that will improve headwork, pick up about a year's worth of Approach magazines and set them in a neatly piled stack on top of your sh!tter. The best stories out there are right there and straight from the horses mouth, not from the girlfriend of the dude that has a cousin in A pool.

If I were a betting man, I would wage that nothing else is going to come of this thread. If there are published news stories, then quote them or post the link, otherwise I would not speculate on an ongoing investigation.

 

[TheBubba]

As a "pre-wingie", I'm gonna agree with Mefesto and e6. It does seem like there's a bit of "where's the blame".

Lets just stick to what we know: A Rhino blew a couple of tires landing with a tailwind and the aircraft was significantly damaged. Now as to who's fault, lets just wait till the official reports come out.

 

[nittany03]

If I were a betting man, I would wage that nothing else is going to come of this thread. If there are published news stories, then quote them or post the link, otherwise I would not speculate on an ongoing investigation.

And with that said, if the old guys are done edjumacating the peanut galley on tire blowouts, we're done.

 

[C-Mike]

And with that said, if the old guys are done edjumacating the peanut galley on tire blowouts, we're done.

Did anyone provide education on the typical tire blowouts beyond being told to pick up Approach magazine??

I can appreciate the point that Mefesto and others are supporting here… If were in your shoes I would almost certainly have the same opinions, however at times perhaps bit more tempered. That being said, I do enjoy the veracity and bluntness with which many you often post with.

I am within the peanut gallery, and I am a pre-wingie (wannabe), however, I was not implying anything within my original post. I have seen others get lit up on here for "monday morning quarterbacking," or stating or implying possible pilot error or fault in a given mishap (and it tends not to be by those with wings in the upper left corner), and I attempted to steer clear of that grouping. I know my place, and luckily, I have thick skin.

I do believe my original questions were valid and fare, as were the "what ifs." They were however sparked by the unrelated event in Pensacola, and perhaps I would been better served if I started a new thread, or happened to inquire on those same points before the event in Pensacola occurred.
Regarding picking up Approach magazine, thanks for the suggestion, sounds like good reading.

Would anyone like to answer my original questions regarding the limits of the Rhino and the general implications to a pilots career when an "average" to minor mishap does occur? I don't know these things, nor are they easy to find on the web. That is why this web site and the knowledge that resides here is great. However those without thick skin, or who haven't yet figured out (or been taught) how to intelligently post can get run out of town real quick. At times that's great, however that's not always the best way to approach things. Just my peanut gallery opinion…

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[scoober78]

Anti Skid back on

ABS type system?

 

[Semper Jump Jet]

Leading cause of tire blow outs? Most I know were guys forgetting to turn the Anti Skid back on...

Can you actuate NWS in the Hornet with the anti-skid on?

 

[jamnww]

I don't care if you disagree... I'm telling you... it's bordering on unprofesional.

Read e6's post about 4 or 5 times. Then do what he says. Good advice.

Sir, with all due respect (and I agree with many of your posts) but asking airframe specific questions such as what are the Tailwind limits for ___, or what are ones options when one has a blown tie in a ___, or what is the process for something like this when it happens to you (for those with no military experience) are all valid questions, though probably should be taken to another forum.

Yes it would be unprofessional to say (pre-wingie I guess) that the pilot screwed up, and yes it is unprofessional to discuss an underway investigation, I grant you that.

Asking these type of questions however about generic topics and NATOPS limits do nothing but help pre-wingie types by giving them a depth of knowledge that can only come with time and experience.

As for the Approach mags, done that, more than once, find them interesting to read and there are always plenty of things to learn from.

Besides jumping down someones throat isn't always the right answer and often doesn't make people understand what they are doing wrong. The same could have been accomplished by saying the following:

After any sort of incident that causes damage to an aircraft ___(x happens)____, this is followed by ____(X)___. Until the underway investigation is concluded it is unprofessional to discuss the specifics / rumors of the situation, especially since we don't know the exact conditions at the time. Discussion concerning specific wind limitations or braking systems should be discussed in a seperate thread to prevent any connection (either direct or implied) to this incident.