USN Sub Drafted... now what?

[Waveoff]

Definitely talk to your sub class advisor as well for interview advice. Idk if the Admiral will know your service selection rankings but I imagine he/she doesn’t want you to blow smoke up their ass when they ask “where did you rank subs” and you say “oh right at the top!” There’s got to be a tactful yet professional way to answer along the lines of “to be honest I didn’t even rank subs on my sheet, but I understand ROTC is an officer first assignment second contract and I accept that, and I would put forth the effort to gain the respect your community is looking for.”

 

[AllAmerican75]

Who cares about being that guy? If you don’t want to be a submariner tell that to everyone you interact with.

The sub draft works because it gets people who put subs second or third and would rather go subs then SWO or another designator.

Because showing up to the boat or Nuke school and telling your CO who not only signs you FITREP but also signs off on your Sub Officer qualifications that you hate being a submariner and hate the sub community will have negative career impacts on both your FITREPs and your Sub Officer qualifications. Those could potentially torpedo your career very early on and prevent you from ever being able to lat transfer out of the the Sub community. It's better to bloom where you're planted and work hard and then ask your CO how to go do something different (Remember, he signs off on the lat transfer package). That's the correct way to play this.

But @Nate23 is still early in the process and could potentially shift his career trajectory by engaging with his NRTOC chain of command early and often. Still, if his efforts don't work out and the Chief of Naval Reactors recommends him for Nuke duty, then he's going to have to attack it with a winner's attitude.

Definitely talk to your sub class advisor as well for interview advice. Idk if the Admiral will know your service selection rankings but I imagine he/she doesn’t want you to blow smoke up their ass when they ask “where did you rank subs” and you say “oh right at the top!” There’s got to be a tactful yet professional way to answer along the lines of “to be honest I didn’t even rank subs on my sheet, but I understand ROTC is an officer first assignment second contract and I accept that, and I would put forth the effort to gain the respect your community is looking for.”

Yes, tact is key.

 

[vxc961]

Not exactly the same, but I (foolishly) volunteered to be a surface nuke. I was book smart, but not street smart enough to say "actually almost anything else seems cooler." I hated the nuke job, but as others have said, I had a good attitude and got support when I wanted to take non-career-enhancing jobs after that. In the end, I'm really happy with how my time turned out.

Your situation sucks, but it can work out well whichever way you end up going. Good luck!

 

[Waveoff]

Because showing up to the boat or Nuke school and telling your CO who not only signs you FITREP but also signs off on your Sub Officer qualifications that you hate being a submariner and hate the sub community will have negative career impacts on both your FITREPs and your Sub Officer qualifications. Those could potentially torpedo your career very early on and prevent you from ever being able to lat transfer out of the the Sub community. It's better to bloom where you're planted and work hard and then ask your CO how to go do something different (Remember, he signs off on the lat transfer package). That's the correct way to play this.

But @Nate23 is still early in the process and could potentially shift his career trajectory by engaging with his NRTOC chain of command early and often. Still, if his efforts don't work out and the Chief of Naval Reactors recommends him for Nuke duty, then he's going to have to attack it with a winner's attitude.


Yes, tact is key.

Pretty sure nuke school would be NOB fitreps like flight school. And I doubt they care whether or not you like it so it wouldn’t matter for career reasons as long as you pass the classes. Now if you make it all that way to your first boat and are still a bitter PITA to everyone than yeah, it’ll hurt.

 

[FLGUY]

Pretty sure nuke school would be NOB fitreps like flight school. And I doubt they care whether or not you like it so it wouldn’t matter for career reasons as long as you pass the classes. Now if you make it all that way to your first boat and are still a bitter PITA to everyone than yeah, it’ll hurt.

Seconded. Make it known to your Commissioning command that you respectfully, yet honestly don’t want nuke. Then if they make you do the interview process, be a good dude, be respectful, and politely tell your interviewer that while you are honored by the opportunity, you don’t see yourself in the nuke community. As others have said, don’t give up.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Pretty sure nuke school would be NOB fitreps like flight school. And I doubt they care whether or not you like it so it wouldn’t matter for career reasons as long as you pass the classes. Now if you make it all that way to your first boat and are still a bitter PITA to everyone than yeah, it’ll hurt.

There is an upcheck in Nuke pipeline from the CO/chain of command assessing whether they have confidence that you can competently stand the watch or run a nuclear plant. I believe this happens at some point in the Prototype phase. It's very possible to piss off the instructors and be de-nuked there. I'm mentoring a couple of dudes who are in that current boat of failing that upcheck. That gets you a POCR board and a likelihood of not preceding in an academically steep or high stress community like Aviation.

 

[CommodoreMid]

And don't go through nuke school and on your first boat with the "I should have been in aviation" mentality. Its annoying enough when SNFOs openly bitch about being SNA drops.

Edit: who knows, maybe your experience as an undersea bubba will help you get into the P-8 MPRA community. Now get to watching/reading Blind Man's Bluff, its practically required reading from what I understand.

There is one sub turned MPRA NFO who has had a very successful career already.

 

[Pcoola19]

Definitely talk to your Skipper/Sub advisor. If they’re not willing to hold their ground for your career aspirations, then do what you have to do at the interview. I’m sure if you’re smart enough to make it to the interview you’re smart enough to fumble the problems you’re given without it showing that you completely didn’t try. Then be honest, tell the Admiral you don’t want to go subs. If that ends up sending you SWO-Nuke who cares. I’d definitely prefer that over the former. If all else fails though, I met at least 3-4 nuke school drops throughout primary and advanced so maybe there is still hope. If you decide to put all your effort into the sub thing, a positive is that you’ll have the option to get out of the Navy WAY before your Aviation counterparts, if you so choose to go civilian route.

 

[Spekkio]

AllAmerican75 has given the best advice in this thread so far. To add some clarification of your options:

• Definitely talk to your chain of command and make it firmly clear in no certain terms that you don't want to be a nuke. They might send you anyway, but being straightforward will help your case.
• If your NROTC chain of command believes you purposefully threw the interviews in DC, you risk being booted from the program and owing any money back in return. It's not common, but it happens. If that's a preferable outcome to nuke swo or submarines, then you have nothing to lose.
• If your chain of command in power school or prototype thinks that you are purposefully failing, you risk NJP + ADSEP. Similar to point two, you'll owe any education expenses back to the military. Again, not common, but it happens. In the interim, you will face painfully long mandatory study hours (ie, 70+ hours a week in a room with no windows). If you get 80% or better generally in power school, you'll have a really cushy life (32-35 hour work weeks with plenty of time to enjoy Charleston).
• Given the option between SWO nuke and submarines, go submarines.
• If you get commissioned as a submariner, you have almost no chance to ever be a pilot. Just accept it.
  • If you fail power school / prototype, the air community most likely won't take you because you couldn't pass initial training and you're already 1-1.5 years behind the people who commissioned into aviation. The most common communities to pick up nuke drops are IW designators and supply.
  • If you get through power school, get your dolphins, and fail PNEO twice, same thing - except now you're 4-5 years into your service commitment, so transferring to pilot / NFO places you at a disadvantage for O4 and they won't take you. You still can recover with RL / staff communities.
• The submarine force has a new initiative that you can jump on the prototype instructor grenade and they'll release you for guaranteed lat xfer, but after 7-8 YCS you will be looking at a bunch of staff / RL jobs and be extremely disadvantaged for making O4, which means high risk that you fail to select (FTS) x2 and get a pink slip at 12-13 years.

Once you beat the big badasses and clean out the base you're supposed to win, aren't you? Aren't you? Where's your fat reward and ticket home? What the hell is this? It's not supposed to end this way! It stinks like rotten meat. Looks like you’re stuck on the shores of Hell. The only way out is through.

 

[taxexperts31582]

Hello all,

I am an rotc super senior set to graduate in December. We just received service selection, and I had SNA/SNFO and then 3 types of SWO (not SWO Nuke) listed on my dream sheet. However, I ended up being sub drafted. I had a 3.01 gpa in Aerospace Engineering and an 8/8/8 ASTB. I believe there was a vacancy to fill in our university, since the previous person slotted for subs ended up losing their comission, and apparently I got picked for it. Is there any hope for me becoming an aviator still? If I fail power school and redesignate, I don't know what the chances are to redesignate to aviator, and lat transfers don't seem too promising either. Any help is appreciated!

How is this possible? You are only allowed one SWO option on your list. It says so at the top of the (CNSTC M-1533.2D. Chapter 4) Designator request form.

 

[Stalion]

Hello all,

I am an rotc super senior set to graduate in December. We just received service selection, and I had SNA/SNFO and then 3 types of SWO (not SWO Nuke) listed on my dream sheet. However, I ended up being sub drafted. I had a 3.01 gpa in Aerospace Engineering and an 8/8/8 ASTB. I believe there was a vacancy to fill in our university, since the previous person slotted for subs ended up losing their comission, and apparently I got picked for it. Is there any hope for me becoming an aviator still? If I fail power school and redesignate, I don't know what the chances are to redesignate to aviator, and lat transfers don't seem too promising either. Any help is appreciated!

Hello all,

I am an rotc super senior set to graduate in December. We just received service selection, and I had SNA/SNFO and then 3 types of SWO (not SWO Nuke) listed on my dream sheet. However, I ended up being sub drafted. I had a 3.01 gpa in Aerospace Engineering and an 8/8/8 ASTB. I believe there was a vacancy to fill in our university, since the previous person slotted for subs ended up losing their comission, and apparently I got picked for it. Is there any hope for me becoming an aviator still? If I fail power school and redesignate, I don't know what the chances are to redesignate to aviator, and lat transfers don't seem too promising either. Any help is appreciated!

It’s still possible to get service reassigned to Aviation. Your last good chance is talking to the Nuke ADM. Make sure you are very respectful to the ADM and thank him for selecting you to the prestigious Nuke community. Then tell the Nuke ADM Aviation has been your career plan since Freshman year. And you prepped your time in and outside college to do that. However, he might like you too much and decides to keep you in Nuke.

It’s going to be very hard to transfer into Aviation out of Sub Nuke, after power school. Perhaps better chance from Nuke SWO since you have to earn your SWO pin in 2 years. However, it’s been done. Recently, one fella failed out of Power School got reassigned to Navy Pilot and failed out of that too and now he’s waiting to be redesignated. Not sure where. Maybe they send him home unless he’s got a O-6 dad in the Navy as Guardian Angel.

Every year, several MIDNs (3-5) from the Naval Academy get reassigned to Aviation from Nuke select before graduation. They all get reassigned to NFO even if they flew before in Power Flight Program (PFP) or have PPL. If you do get reassigned to Aviation, high chance they give you NFO. There is greater shortage in NFO than Pilot. NFO is shorter service and faster training pipeline. You can also double wing to Pilot from NFO after you do one sea tour. It you’ll end up serving 14-16 years. At that point you mind as well wait to get ranked to CDR before leaving the Navy. If you want to fly Jets, you need to do well in flight school through Primary. But it’s also timing. Best time I believe is when the new fiscal year starts again like in October.

So several options are available to you. Don’t give up the fight. Where ever you land give your best. If you don’t know already, Nuke pays the best out of all communities. You’ll get $500,000 more pay compared to your peers by year 6. And you will be highly sought after when you leave in 6 years with $200,000+ salary boost in Civ Nuke job.

Good luck in your interview!

 

[HSMPBR]

It’s still possible to get service reassigned to Aviation. Your last good chance is talking to the Nuke ADM. Make sure you are very respectful to the ADM and thank him for selecting you to the prestigious Nuke community. Then tell the Nuke ADM Aviation has been your career plan since Freshman year. And you prepped your time in and outside college to do that. However, he might like you too much and decides to keep you in Nuke.

It’s going to be very hard to transfer into Aviation out of Sub Nuke, after power school. Perhaps better chance from Nuke SWO since you have to earn your SWO pin in 2 years. However, it’s been done. Recently, one fella failed out of Power School got reassigned to Navy Pilot and failed out of that too and now he’s waiting to be redesignated. Not sure where. Maybe they send him home unless he’s got a O-6 dad in the Navy as Guardian Angel.

Every year, several MIDNs (3-5) from the Naval Academy get reassigned to Aviation from Nuke select before graduation. They all get reassigned to NFO even if they flew before in Power Flight Program (PFP) or have PPL. If you do get reassigned to Aviation, high chance they give you NFO. There is greater shortage in NFO than Pilot. NFO is shorter service and faster training pipeline. You can also double wing to Pilot from NFO after you do one sea tour. It you’ll end up serving 14-16 years. At that point you mind as well wait to get ranked to CDR before leaving the Navy. If you want to fly Jets, you need to do well in flight school through Primary. But it’s also timing. Best time I believe is when the new fiscal year starts again like in October.

So several options are available to you. Don’t give up the fight. Where ever you land give your best. If you don’t know already, Nuke pays the best out of all communities. You’ll get $500,000 more pay compared to your peers by year 6. And you will be highly sought after when you leave in 6 years with $200,000+ salary boost in Civ Nuke job.

Good luck in your interview!

How’s that $500,000 math work on the initial 6-year commitment with it taking a couple years to qualify PNEO and not signing for COBO to extend?

 

[Griz882]

@Nate23 please remember to come back here and tell us what you have decided (or what was decided for you). Your young experiences count and we can all learn from them.

 

[Stalion]

How’s that $500,000 math work on the initial 6-year commitment with it taking a couple years to qualify PNEO and not signing for COBO to extend?

Saw that from Sub Command Distribution handed out to MIDN at the Naval Academy. Similar distribution was given to Nuke SWO. The figure for that was +$400,000. Nuke SWO serve slightly less at 5.5 years as min service requirement. FYI, I’m not a MIDN.

 

[taxi1]

Tell the Admiral you want to go into Nuke Aviation.