Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[magnetfreezer]

That's so fucked up I don't even know where to begin. It's fucking criminal, that's what it is. I'm with Paddles on this one - muster the IG (or tip off the Air Force Times).

Nothing "official" on it - just the Airman Snuffy eval gets kicked back for revisions with a week suspense before you leave, etc. No one is forcing you to do office work on leave, better time management on your part could have prevented it.

No one is "mandating" the leave on weekends - if you'd been smart enough to find the random 5-day periods in between deployment, workup, and random TDYs that also had enough spare aviators in the SQ to ensure execution of the weekly flight schedule, you could take leave then. Just a byproduct of the resource-constrained military and the relentless pursuit of zero-defect statistics.

The MB - mentioned cancellations also occur when necessary.

 

[PropAddict]

The OPSO doesn't get to say no -he just gets to put down his/her opinion. Make them recommend no and keep routing the chit.

Yeah, unless my command is on some special OFP, the new whizbang e-Leave system stops the routing of leave chits when somebody disapproves it and hits "Recycle To Member." All prior approvals and comments are lost into the aether and you have to re-route from scratch, which means it will likely get smacked down by the same guy again. Sisyphus chuckles, and you still don't get your leave.

I really wish they would let me turn in my unusable leave days at the end of the year for $$$, but I can only imagine what kind of crazy, criminal abuses that system would "encourage."

I may try to put in for 27 days of leave in September so that I don't lose any days on 1 October, just to see how far I can push it through.

(And as much as I'm sour-grapes-ing here, the real guys who suffer are the E's. So many of them OTEIP and take the 30 days of Basket leave incentive, only to never be able to use more than a week of it, or end up losing all their regularly-accrued leave at the end of the FY due to use/lose policies.)

 

[HooverPilot]

Yeah, unless my command is on some special OFP, the new whizbang e-Leave system stops the routing of leave chits when somebody disapproves it and hits "Recycle To Member." All prior approvals and comments are lost into the aether and you have to re-route from scratch, which means it will likely get smacked down by the same guy again. Sisyphus chuckles, and you still don't get your leave.

That seems improper to me. I've been a leave reviewer (DH Tour) and am now an approver (Joint Billet). I don't remember the screen exactly, but the recycle to member is a seperate button from the recommend no button. If there is not a problem with how the chit is filled out, sending it back to the member is just stonewalling them. The CO deserves to see all chits being denied and the person recycling the chit back to the member as a way to say no is probably not informing the XO/CO of what they are doing; if I was the CO, I would be pissed about that. Leave is a right. Infringing upon a members ability to take leave can be justified, but the CO is the one that it needs to be justified to.

 

[Gatordev]

That seems improper to me. I've been a leave reviewer (DH Tour) and am now an approver (Joint Billet). I don't remember the screen exactly, but the recycle to member is a seperate button from the recommend no button. If there is not a problem with how the chit is filled out, sending it back to the member is just stonewalling them. The CO deserves to see all chits being denied and the person recycling the chit back to the member as a way to say no is probably not informing the XO/CO of what they are doing; if I was the CO, I would be pissed about that. Leave is a right. Infringing upon a members ability to take leave can be justified, but the CO is the one that it needs to be justified to.

I believe you are correct. I can't check it now because I have to have an E-5 authorize me (and I just tell him to approve it), but that's how I remember it when I was a DH less than a year ago.

This thread has really started to irritate me. Not because of anyone here, but because of what is apparently happening "out there." There just seems to be so many levels of wrong.

 

[futureflyr]

If its so rare and complicated to use leave, are you ever really able to spend anywhere close to the 30 days?

 

[SynixMan]

If its so rare and complicated to use leave, are you ever really able to spend anywhere close to the 30 days?

It depnds on where you are. Throughout my time in the TRACOM I used all the leave I could. I think I was close to a zero balance at winging. And that was just using it during designated holiday periods and while I was pooled in between phases.

 

[Gatordev]

If its so rare and complicated to use leave, are you ever really able to spend anywhere close to the 30 days?

I don't know if I've ever used 30 days in a FY, usually less than that, but I've only ever lost leave once, and that was my fault because I checked in 2.5 days early on a PCS. Admittedly, I've used the Combat Leave Carryover several times (I think I got to 110 at one point), along with the (now) 75 days max, but I usually get to that point about the time I'm PCSing, so I use up parts of that enroute.

 

[bert]

If you are going to lose leave because the OPSO keeps rejecting your requests do the following:

(1) If it he is not your DH, have your DH fix the issue. If your DH won't or can't*, go to the OPSO (after telling AOPS and your DH you are doing so) directly. If he won't work anything out with you, choose between going to the front office or eating the turd quietly. Be polite about it, have a list of all your rejected leave dates, and be flexible about dates that will let you use your use/lose (without that ridiculous "use it on the weekends"option). Make sure both the OPSO and your DH know what you are briging to the front office and why. Don't worry about your FITREP, if the DHs are willing to treat you like that you aren't a Chosen One anyways.

(2) if the front office doesn't care if you lose leave, you're screwed. And while you can go to the IG or the Wing, just understand it won't fix anything for you; at best it will just punish the clowns responsible (and likely not even that).



* that will also let you know that your DH is a wedge with the tip broken off.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Reading this makes me realize how lucky I am.

After having flown almost 47 hours in 14 days, myself and the lone Captain in the squadron are worn out. We've done all the flight planning, and have all the instructor quals, and have strapped on the old girl for 28 hours in the last 7 days. Tomorrow, we only have a section going out - and our CO wanted us to have the day off. But we don't have enough pilots to cover the schedule, give the two of us a day off, and stand ODO.

So our CO is standing ODO tomorrow.

I suggested that I come in, and was shot down. By the CO.

 

[707guy]

So our CO is standing ODO tomorrow. I suggested that I come in, and was shot down. By the CO.

THAT is called leading from the front...nice to see that spirit is alive and well somewhere.

 

[Flugelman]

Reading this makes me realize how lucky I am.

After having flown almost 47 hours in 14 days, myself and the lone Captain in the squadron are worn out. We've done all the flight planning, and have all the instructor quals, and have strapped on the old girl for 28 hours in the last 7 days. Tomorrow, we only have a section going out - and our CO wanted us to have the day off. But we don't have enough pilots to cover the schedule, give the two of us a day off, and stand ODO.

So our CO is standing ODO tomorrow.

I suggested that I come in, and was shot down. By the CO.

Your CO is a real class act. Either adopt him or marry him...

 

[scoolbubba]

Your CO is a real class act. Either adopt him or marry him...

Both are legal in the USMC nowadays.

 

[phrogpilot73]

THAT is called leading from the front...nice to see that spirit is alive and well somewhere.

Your CO is a real class act. Either adopt him or marry him...

Today the CO pulled me aside and thanked me (and Happy, our lone Captain) for the effort we've put in to accomplish our squadron training goals during AT...

In the past, I've been jaded about CO's. Didn't really luck out (with the exception of my battalion commander). This guy gives me hope.

 

[C420sailor]

but did have numerous cases of leave denied, or canceled after approval, then losing the leave.

What's with that? I put in for a long weekend on e-Leave, but canceled it before the final approver gave it the go/no-go. It wasn't until a few months later when I went to route another leave chit that I saw I was charged for the leave that I had canceled.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Today the CO pulled me aside and thanked me (and Happy, our lone Captain) for the effort we've put in to accomplish our squadron training goals during AT...

In the past, I've been jaded about CO's. Didn't really luck out (with the exception of my battalion commander). This guy gives me hope.

You didn't get ALL of your training objectives met. You are missing one crucial X.