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Stimulants, supplements, crew rest and that dang Circadian Rhythm

NA29697

NA29697

New Member
MB is right on:

8.3.2.5 Drugs (in OPNAV 3710.7T) states
a.
4. Caffeine — Excessive intake of caffeine from
coffee, tea, cola, etc., can cause excitability,
sleeplessness, loss of concentration,
decreased awareness, and dehydration. Caffeine
intake should be limited to not more than
450 mg per day, or 3 to 4 cups of coffee.
 
Catmando

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
NA29697 said:
MB is right on:

8.3.2.5 Drugs (in OPNAV 3710.7T) states
a.
4. Caffeine — Excessive intake of caffeine from
coffee, tea, cola, etc., can cause excitability,
sleeplessness, loss of concentration,
decreased awareness, and dehydration. Caffeine
intake should be limited to not more than
450 mg per day, or 3 to 4 cups of coffee.
Click to expand...
Fortunately back in the day, the earlier versions of OPNAV 3710. never mentioned this stuff. Otherwise as a coffee addict (still am), I would have been grounded forever.

I also remember (on at least two occasions) the flight lead briefer on the oh-dark-thirty-launch passing out during his brief - because he was without breakfast and hypoglycemic.

The flight surgeon/"quack"/"dick-smith" was called in. He gave him some OJ and a sugar-coated doughnut, and then pronounced him able to fly. And he did! Off the carrier. November Sierra.

Different days, different times. :)
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
NA29697 said:
MB is right on:

8.3.2.5 Drugs (in OPNAV 3710.7T) states
a.
4. Caffeine — Excessive intake of caffeine from
coffee, tea, cola, etc., can cause excitability,
sleeplessness, loss of concentration,
decreased awareness, and dehydration. Caffeine
intake should be limited to not more than
450 mg per day, or 3 to 4 cups of coffee.
Click to expand...

Nobody in the real world takes any of that seriously, and people drink things like Monster and Red Bull in the cockpit every day. Will you people please, please relax about this stuff?

Brett
 
NA29697

NA29697

New Member
I was just pointing out that he was correct about the should rather than shall - I know that this aspect of opnav is kind of ridiculous.
 
BACONATOR

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Brett327 said:
Nobody in the real world takes any of that seriously, and people drink things like Monster and Red Bull in the cockpit every day. Will you people please, please relax about this stuff?

Brett
Click to expand...

Yes, but I've heard from someone directly, in the HTs, that this question was asked in a brief (on their instrument checkride I think?). Seriously. If it was an O-3 IP, I'd have been tempted to ask "Sir, who the hell cares?"
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
OttoWrote8 said:
Yes, but I've heard from someone directly, in the HTs, that this question was asked in a brief (on their instrument checkride I think?). Seriously. If it was an O-3 IP, I'd have been tempted to ask "Sir, who the hell cares?"
Click to expand...

HTs =/= real world.

Brett
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
OttoWrote8 said:
My point was that SOMEONE will attempt to test you on this sort of ridiculous minutiae.

Prime example (heard from B pilots) = HSL. And VP.
Click to expand...

Well, I've never, ever heard anyone so much as mention that kind of thing, or even bat an eye at people who self-medicate (within reason), and I've been in both of those communities as aircrew.

My point is that you can't make assumptions about how it is in the fleet based on what some moron IP did, so please stop - all of you. Drink your beloved Coffee, Monster, Red Bull, and (gasp!) Gatorade to your palpitating hearts' content, because nobody cares.

Brett
 
BACONATOR

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Brett327 said:
Well, I've never, ever heard anyone so much as mention that kind of thing, or even bat an eye at people who self-medicate (within reason), and I've been in both of those communities as aircrew.

My point is that you can't make assumptions about how it is in the fleet based on what some moron IP did, so please stop - all of you. Drink your beloved Coffee, Monster, Red Bull, and (gasp!) Gatorade to your palpitating hearts' content, because nobody cares.

Brett
Click to expand...

I think I was typing my original post whilst furiously chugging a sugar-free monster.

Cheers.
 
Sky-Pig

Sky-Pig

Retired Cryptologic Warfare / Naval Flight Officer
None
NA29697 said:
MB is right on:

8.3.2.5 Drugs (in OPNAV 3710.7T) states
a.
4. Caffeine — Excessive intake of caffeine from
coffee, tea, cola, etc., can cause excitability,
sleeplessness, loss of concentration,
decreased awareness, and dehydration. Caffeine
intake should be limited to not more than
450 mg per day, or 3 to 4 cups of coffee.
Click to expand...

I must have been a walking, talking time-bomb because I used to drink that much coffee during pre-flight...and a non-functional coffee pot in the EP-3 was close to being a downing gripe:icon_tong
 
M

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Pags said:
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and shows a complete lack of regard for circadian rhythm. Getting 2hrs of sleep makes a you a prime candidate to buy it on the drive back into work or on the drive home the next day. Our Wing SOP has the "shall not be required to muster until 10hrs after post-flight debrief, should not be required to muster until 12..." clause in it, which helps a fair bit.
Click to expand...

Yep. It was retarded. I got hammered by the DHs more than once because I "sauntered" in at 0930.. The forget I landed at 0230ish, had to debrief/do a 60 hour, and didn't leave until damn near 0500.

There were MANY days I basically "woke up" at work, with no real recollection of how I got out of bed and on my bike and made it into work. Body was running on autopilot. Of course, I would have the ORM hammer dropped on MY head if I got into an accident on the way in, but when you try to pull the "I only got 2 hours (or less) of sleep" card, you get a lecture about "time management"..
 
Ken_gone_flying

Ken_gone_flying

"I live vicariously through myself."
pilot
Contributor
MasterBates said:
Yep. It was retarded. I got hammered by the DHs more than once because I "sauntered" in at 0930.. The forget I landed at 0230ish, had to debrief/do a 60 hour, and didn't leave until damn near 0500.

There were MANY days I basically "woke up" at work, with no real recollection of how I got out of bed and on my bike and made it into work. Body was running on autopilot. Of course, I would have the ORM hammer dropped on MY head if I got into an accident on the way in, but when you try to pull the "I only got 2 hours (or less) of sleep" card, you get a lecture about "time management"..
Click to expand...


Why didn't you just park the Puma in the squadron parking lot? Then, you're already at work.
 
feddoc

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
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