-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Staying in?
- Thread starter VarmintShooter
- Start date
- Status
Physicx, if you're talking about guys leaving the mil to fly EMS, the issue at hand is the pay cut. At roughly 70K or more at end of service (depends on a lot, but that's about avg), a lot of people just don't feel like having to start cutting corners.
Add to the issue that many of these guys aren't just out of college and just happy to have paychecks, but late 20s to early 30s (or 40s for the Webmaster), with kids and spouses to support. Have you looked at the real estate market in larger areas like San Diego? It's ree-dik-yoo-luss. Maybe if you hit the lottery and marry a doctor or lawyer or hotel heiress (re: rich skanks), you can afford to take the $$$lash, but for most guys, it's just not feasible. Have one kid and you may as well start socking away any extraneous loot for said "7 pound crap-machine's" college fund.
(Keep in mind, if I get out, it's 50-50 that I'll be living in my mom's basement working as assistant manager at a Pep Boy's)
Add to the issue that many of these guys aren't just out of college and just happy to have paychecks, but late 20s to early 30s (or 40s for the Webmaster), with kids and spouses to support. Have you looked at the real estate market in larger areas like San Diego? It's ree-dik-yoo-luss. Maybe if you hit the lottery and marry a doctor or lawyer or hotel heiress (re: rich skanks), you can afford to take the $$$lash, but for most guys, it's just not feasible. Have one kid and you may as well start socking away any extraneous loot for said "7 pound crap-machine's" college fund.
(Keep in mind, if I get out, it's 50-50 that I'll be living in my mom's basement working as assistant manager at a Pep Boy's)
Brett327 said:
Agreed: and unfortunately, true these days ... the Chief Pilot of TXI who offered me a job in 1982 flying very nice corporate Fear-Jets and Frog-Jets with a first-class operation (when Braniff -- BI -- "Big Idiot" -- died), .... now HE was making $60,000. But that was in 1982 ... did I already say that ????
$60,000 =
Physicx said:
"Very soon" eh? Maybe you can also tell us when "the Navy will need pilots again". So base an outside career on speculation? Try again man. Not an argument you're gonna win.
Edit: Sitting at my desk, thinking this over, I want to clarify. CAN you make ends meet with only 60K and a family in an area like San Diego? Sure. happens all the time. Would it be a fun experience? I doubt it. You have to see it from the perspective of a guy getting out who was making more money, with benefits, and wasn't sweating his car payment and mortgage. Hamburger Helper for dinner sucks in college. Sucks more at 32 when you're saving to send Junior to (hopefully) State U.
A single guy? Maybe a bit more realistic (although try picking up quality a$$ in the Gaslamp when yoú're slumming), the pay cut may not hurt QUITE as bad, but it's still there. The older you get, the more you enjoy not having to sweat your finances as much.
No one here is arguing that a job flying in EMS wouldn't be cool, but for a lot of guys in the position of getting out, it doesn't make sense financially.
Just as an example... an O-4 with over 10 years in (what most people will be when they hit their 8 year committment) will make $63,804 in base pay alone (w/ 2005 pay rates). Figure in a decent BAH (lets continue the SoCal example) of $2003/$2135 (no dep/dep) for San Diego. Add those up and you're making $87840 or $89424. Figure in flight pay, sea pay, or any other bonuses you get and you're grossing $90,000.
Now, I don't know about you, but I would be hard pressed to take a 33% pay cut even at this point in my life -- I gave up Ramen noodles after college thanks. As an older, more established, O-4 with a family or so - are you high?
Maybe putting it into numbers will help you see why no one wants those jobs. There may be some glamour to EMS now (in your opinion), but after doing military flying for a while and making good money, experienced officers aren't apt to take a huge pay cut for civilian flying and bad hours.
Now, I don't know about you, but I would be hard pressed to take a 33% pay cut even at this point in my life -- I gave up Ramen noodles after college thanks. As an older, more established, O-4 with a family or so - are you high?
Maybe putting it into numbers will help you see why no one wants those jobs. There may be some glamour to EMS now (in your opinion), but after doing military flying for a while and making good money, experienced officers aren't apt to take a huge pay cut for civilian flying and bad hours.
Physicx
Banned
Well you guys better stay in.If you go to the civilian side it will take a couple of years to make 60K and thats if you don't get furloughed.I still waiting for civilian jobs that make more then that.I would say that most don't make that much.Now if you and your wife are both making that then your doing good.And the market will crash soon.How can a guy who make $15 dollars an hour afford in San Diego.They can't so they they are only paying on interest for the first five years.After that they have to pay on the loan.Well your payment is going to go from 1500 a month to 3 or 4 thousand a month.If you don't believe me ask any morgage guy.As far as foreclourses for 10K it was in easy county and not the ghetto.The smart business now is buying those homes in national city for cheap and selling them after you fix them up.
Tripp
You think you hate it now...
Well, based on interest and training:
CPA
Lots of stuff in the financial world (broker, analyst, consultants, financial planner, etc.)
Attorney
Author
Engineer
This is just a rough list I came up with in about 30 seconds sitting here...I think you'd be a fool to just limit yourself to aviation. There are plenty of fields in the civilian world where you can use your experience as a military officer (and not just as an Aviation MOS).
CPA
Lots of stuff in the financial world (broker, analyst, consultants, financial planner, etc.)
Attorney
Author
Engineer
This is just a rough list I came up with in about 30 seconds sitting here...I think you'd be a fool to just limit yourself to aviation. There are plenty of fields in the civilian world where you can use your experience as a military officer (and not just as an Aviation MOS).
Physicx said:
Are you talking about just civilian flying jobs? No one on here is gonna argue the point that the airlines aren't paying d!ck to new guys.
And no offense man, but I'd wager even an "average" officer getting out after his commitment has more qualifications on his resume than most civilians applying for those jobs. There's a reason why companies headhunt for J.O.'s and court them to leave the service. A pay cut isn't going to help their case.
- Status